Some Help With A Volume Question

[borsat]

i have a mackie ony1620 w/ firewire soudcard option. I record some stuff with this...then i mix and try to master it! all normal, right?

last day a friend of mine send me some stuff recorded by him with a soundcard m-audio audiophile, and the final result was so much higher on volume than mine?

i was thinkink in what could it be, cause i mix all the tracks, then i use a final compression with c4 waves and it's more low... u can fell all the instrument but the general is lower than my friend's stuff..

what's the point? i was thinking...am i using to much compression on each tracks of the mix? this could take some "power" from the instruments?
should i compress less each instrument and than try to compress on the final?

any suggestions

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Stop believing that compression (more or less) will solve your problems, first of all.

Second, pay attention to your gain staging during tracking.

Third, mix your tracks. Do not just compress and pan them.

Fourth, complete the mix. The less processing you have to perform on the two mix during the mastering phase, the more solid the mix and the further you'll be able to push it.

Fifth, if you were happy with your levels before you heard his tracks, why are you unhappy with them now? Loudness is supposed to be set appropriate to a specific track, not in comparison to another track.

G.

 

[littledog]

Glen's points all have merit, but may not be addressing your actual question.

It sounds like someone told you to use a compressor, without explaining how they work.

A compressor (or limiter) typically shrinks the dynamic range of the recorded material (depending on yow you set it up). You can set the threshold and ratio so that loudest parts of your material are brought down closer to the average volume level of the track. The lower the threshold and the higher the ratio, the more you shrink the dynamics. Too much compression will virtually eliminatethe dynamics, which most people would find unmusical on most material.

But this process actually makes your track sound SOFTER, not louder! (Probably what happened in your case). But that's because you haven't finished the procedure. By bringing the loudest peaks down closer to the average program level, you now have room to raise the entire song level without clipping. On most compressors this is called makeup gain.

So it sounds like you simply compressed without adding makeup gain.

Find the makeup gain knob on your compressor and turn it up and see what happens.

 

[borsat]

Glen's points all have merit, but may not be addressing your actual question.

It sounds like someone told you to use a compressor, without explaining how they work.

A compressor (or limiter) typically shrinks the dynamic range of the recorded material (depending on yow you set it up). You can set the threshold and ratio so that loudest parts of your material are brought down closer to the average volume level of the track. The lower the threshold and the higher the ratio, the more you shrink the dynamics. Too much compression will virtually eliminatethe dynamics, which most people would find unmusical on most material.

But this process actually makes your track sound SOFTER, not louder! (Probably what happened in your case). But that's because you haven't finished the procedure. By bringing the loudest peaks down closer to the average program level, you now have room to raise the entire song level without clipping. On most compressors this is called makeup gain.

So it sounds like you simply compressed without adding makeup gain.

Find the makeup gain knob on your compressor and turn it up and see what happens.

In each track that i use compression, or at a final compression? i know what u mean just tell me in wich part..

 

[SonicAlbert]

In each track that i use compression, or at a final compression? i know what u mean just tell me in wich part..

Wow, it's just not that simple. I mean, compresson is an art, a real art. It's not something you can ask about on a message board and expect that then you have even the slightest clue about it. Learning compression requires a lot of real-world listening and experimentation.

The answer is: both, or neither, it depends.

I would say start by compressing tracks individually. Then maybe compress busses once you have some more experience, and then finally apply some to the final stereo mix if you still feel it needs it.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

In each track that i use compression, or at a final compression? i know what u mean just tell me in wich part..

If you're asking one which ones you should use makeup gain, the answer is "all of them that need it to keep the levels where you need them." This is why I brought up the idea of gain staging early in my first post, though I should have said all through the process and not just in tracking.

If your doing it on individual tracks in mixing, then you should bring the output of the compressor back up to nominal levels before running into the next link in your signal chain (e.g. EQ, reverb). If you are mixing on computer and your compressor plug has no output gain control, then you should boost the level of the individual track itself back where you want it to fit in the mix.

If you are compressing the two mix as part of "mastering", then yes, of course you need to bring the levels back up after compressing.

If this is all new stuff to you, I'd like to suggest that you grab a copy of the tutorial on basic compression that I link to in my signature area, and read through it before you go too much further?

G.

 

[littledog]

Again, I'm not contradicting any of the other posts by Glen and Sonic, which contain excellent perspectives.

But my answer assumed that you already had a mix that you were pretty happy with, but you just wanted to make it louder - sort of a self-mastering exercise.

So, in that case, we are talking about compressing on the stereo mix buss, not individual tracks. Once you start going back and compressing individual tracks (which is a fine thing to do when still inthe mix process) you will basically end up remixing the entire song.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

So, in that case, we are talking about compressing on the stereo mix buss.

Why?

Why the assumption that any compression across the two mix is automatically required? Because he wants it louder? Thares a lot better ways to handle that.

This whole idea of "mastering = compression/limiting" needs to have it's back broken. It is the source of more bad engineering productions than anything else.

He wants it louder and has no idea on how to use a compressor. Best now to get him while he's young and teach him the right techniques and get him used to making mixes who's mastering does not require throwing the mix into a straightjacket.

G.

 

[littledog]

We are not in any disagreement, that I can see.

Sometimes it helps to go back and reread the original question. Here is my interpretation of the original post:

"I have these mixes. They are much softer than my friends mixes. I tried using compression on my mixes and it only made them softer. Whassup?"

Given the context of his actual question (if my interpretation is correct) it is very pretty that he has very little knowledge of how a compressor works, to the point where he didn't even know about make-up gain.

So my answer stands.If you already have a mix, and just want to make it louder:

1) Yes, a compressor or limiter is the easiest way to do it that doesn't involve starting the mix over from square one. (But be ready to be lectured on the historical evils of the "Loudness Wars".)

2) You have to learn how a compressor works to get the results you want.

I stand by that answer. Glen's assertion that "there are a lot better ways to handle that" may or may not be true, depending on how one defines better. And the philosophical discussion of whether someone SHOULD want to make their mixes louder is another topic. There actually could be legitimate reasons for wanting a quick volume fix - like he wants to put some of his mixes on the same CD as his friend's, and wants them all to be at a similar level. And doesn't want either start over, or have the money to use a professional mastering engineer. I see nothing wrong with that.