Some Help Choosing Equipment for Home Studio.

S

spectacle

New member
Hí.

Just surfed into this site n thought I might get some good hints n tips from users here.
I have got a small home studio, uptil now it consists of:

Behringer Truth Active Monitors.
behringer powerplay pro headphone amp.
Behringer composer pro compressor.
Behringer Tube ultragain Mic amp.
behringer b2 michrophone.
Fostex De-10 multieffects processor.
Yamaha Pro Mix 01 16 channel digital mixer.

I only record vocals (one channel)and I record them onto a harddisk (normal pc) computer using only sound blaster Live soundcard and recording software .
This means I havnt got to use the mixer that much since I only got one channel out of the soundcard and i dont use it when recording the vocals. I want to use for mixing only.
Now, i have thought for long about buying a new soundcard (dont know wich one exactly) wit a break-out box 16 channels out wich is what I need. But my second thought have been to skip the computer n put the money in some sort of multitracker instead, since Im not to keen on working that much with computers. So finally my question is wich one I should go for first? Anybody got a good tip, would bee greatful.

Thanks
 
I can relate to your not wanting to work with a computer. I bought my first album in 1965, and had the pleasure of recording in some of the best studios in the world in the 70/80's. There wasn't a computer in sight back then. My ears got hooked on that deep tape sound. I have resisted going computer for recording, but after several ventures into most of the stand alone mediums, I bought a computer and will never go back! You can hear the results on the below link. IMO, it comes pretty darn close to some of the studio stuff. Remeber, this was only after I had it 3 days. I am just begining to tap into this thing. Walter

Go to the last song on this page-Vibrato to the Harp Forum


http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3118&alid=886


Here is what I got: total price $627

Intel-Celeron 2.4 SKT 478
DFI PS35-BL SKT478 Intel 865G
DDR PC 2100 512MB
Maxtor 40GB ATA/133 7200RPM OEM
MSI CDR 52X32X52 CR52-A2
USR 3090 PCI V92 INT OEM Modem
Mitsumi 1.44MB floppy
Case ATX 821 P4-350W PS
Keytronic KB & mouse combo
MS Windows XP Home OEM
1 year warranty on parts and labor

Delata 66 soundcard -$269

Samplitude Master 6.0 recording software - $300

The Samplitude software reminds me of working with a board. It is very easy to use, and the manual is very detailed, and also easy to follow. This software came recommended by a engineer I know who has worked with recording people such as the Eagles, Boz Skaggs, and others. He told me a local big name studio just dumped pro tools for samplitude when they did a side by side test. here is nice bit of info on it from another forum member, Robert D.


Congratulations on finding your way to one of the best kept secrets in audio. Yes, Samplitude is a phenominal program, and many pro studios around the world are using it. Some have Pro Tools rigs also, but quickly win their clients over on Samplitude. The sound quality, due to the superior algorithms in the code, is a cut above anything I've tried, and it was the only program that convinced me to record and mix in the box.
The version that you got, 6.0, is when the developers turned a long time great audio engine, with a somewhat counter-intuitive interface, into a really usable program with the same depth of features as before and more, but a much more intuitive interface.
I had owned previous versions, but 6.0 is when I fell in love with it and started using it full time. Eventually you'll want to upgrade to the current version.....there's a ton of new features, but 6.0 will keep you plenty happy in the mean time, and there's still a lot of folks using that version. Make sure you hve the last of the last version 6 release...I think it was 6.05. You can download it at www.samplitude.com. Also, there are some good user groups at www.sekd.com and at audioforums.com . Ask about getting alternative skins for Samp.
With the Delta 66, you have the same setup that I had with Samp 6.0 . Since then I've started using Lynx for conversion, but I still have the 66, and in my opinion it is a damn good interface for the money. Even compared to the highly aclaimed Lynx converters, the Delta 66 through Samplitude stands up quite well, and is capable of delivering professional quality recordings.
Good luck, and have fun.
RD
 
I second the Samplitude idea. The current version (7.0) is either US$550 for the "classic" version or $1100 for the "professional" version. The sound quality on each is the same, but the professional version gives you extra room to play (999 tracks instead of 64, 64 submix/aux buses rather than 8/6, some nif) and a few extra features (mix to 5.1 surround, Room Simulator is in realtime rather than just offline). If you spend $550 for the classic version, and another few hundred on a Delta soundcard, you will have a set-up that will blow away any digital multitracker you could get for triple the price.

One of the best features about Samplitude in their new version is the Room Simulator. This is an incredible convolution reverb that comes with the software.

Only caveat is if you are going to be doing a lot of MIDI, it would be worth looking at one of the other pieces of software out there, as Samplitude's MIDI is not its strength. But for audio, it is really an impresive program.

There's a demo on www.Samplitude.com, and it should work with your current soundcard (although you won't get very good sound through that).
 
Kelby: Can you tell me more about the room simulator? Can you only use the presets, or can you manipulate them to meet your personal needs? I am not messing with it yet on my program. I am using the non destructive reverb. Thanks Walter
 
tghanks for giving me tips , n ima really chekc this samplitude out..
so if i got it right it means you do everything in the box...from recording to final mixing and editing...so WALTER TORE u dont use any hardware at all for mixing??
coyuld someone tell me a bit more bout the delta soundcard...???
 
You will need a computer regardless. But if you want to do your tracking in analog do it!

I feel like a broken record this morning...I give up.

ANALOG BABY!
 
spectacle said:
tghanks for giving me tips , n ima really chekc this samplitude out..
so if i got it right it means you do everything in the box...from recording to final mixing and editing...so WALTER TORE u dont use any hardware at all for mixing??
coyuld someone tell me a bit more bout the delta soundcard...???
Click to expand...

I use a Yamaha MG10/2 mixer to plug my mics into and then it goes to the computer(Samplitude and Delta 66 soundcard). When I save some more $, I am going to get just preamps to plug into and eliminate the board. The only reason I use it is for the phantom power to drive the condensor mics.


Samplitude has everything I need-compressors, delay, reverb, etc.
I record dry, and add with the program.


The Delta 66 allows you to plug in 4 mics at a time when recording. It also allows me to plug in my DAT recorder or mini disc. I use these for location recordings because the computer doesn't travel easily(the only drawback I see to this medium). It sends the signal direct to samplitude. You can get the Delta 44 if you don't need this feature. I bought the delta because it came highly recommended on this forum, and from others in the recording industry I respect. Here is a link, and the best price on the 44 and 66(thanks to the BBS forum for pointing me to the lowest price).

http://www.cdbm.com/shop/support/midiman-maudio/


I recorded this one last night called

Remembering Dr King


http://media.nowhereradio.com/cgi-b.../www/mp3manager.htm&aid=3118&alid=951&errors=<li>Add%2fUpdate%20successful<%2fli>


It took only 5 minutes to get it to this point. The samplitude is great!
Walter
 
Walter,

The Room Simulator in Samp 6.0 is a completely different beast than the RoomSim in 7.0.

My memory is that in 6.0, what they call a "Room Simulator" is basically a picture of a soundstage. You select from a list of preset rooms and click on where you want the sound to come from in the soundstage, and Samp processes the reverb and panning to position the track in the soundstage in that room.

In 7.0, however, the only similarity with the Room Simulator of 6.0 is that they use the same name. Room Simulator in 7.0 is a convolution reverb. Forget the soundstage thing and the presets. Basically, this is a reverb processor on steroids. Here's a quick explanation of convolution reverb, with the caveat that I'm no technical expert on this. You start with an "impulse," which is a small file containing a sample of the reflective qualities of a given room. The impulse can be something you create by miking the reflective qualities of a room, or something you create by sampling how a hardware reverb unit process a sound. (More likely, it's something you download for free from one of the many sites containing all sorts of impulses.) The impulse tells the convolution reverb effect how the room or the hardware unit affects the sound. The convolution reverb process your track based upon that impulse. You can fine tune the wet/dry ratio, etc.

The end result is that if you use an impulse that was recorded at the Rose Bowl, the track will sound like it was played in the Rose Bowl. If you use an impulse that was generated from a Lexicon 960, the track should sound like it is was recorded through a Lexicon 960.

By no means are you limited to any amount of presets --- to the contrary, the only limit is your ability to generate or download impulses. A tremendous resource is at http://www.noisevault.com/index.php?page=3&sid=03441f953d437356670bc9185c2b0030 There, they have impulses from all sorts of Lexicon units, a TC M5K, a Kurzweils KSP8, and all sorts of other hardware reverb units that cost thousands of dollars each and are way out of most of our leagues in terms of what we could ever afford. But with a convolution reverb program, you can effectively have tens of thousands of dollars worth of reverb units at your fingertips.

In the real world, how much your reverb sounds like that $3000 hardware unit from which the impulse was taken depends on (1) the faithfulness of the impulse to the original sound, and (2) the quality of the convolution reverb software. The quality of Samplitude's Room Simulator is extraordinary, so your only limit is the quality of the impulses you can get.

Waves has just come out with convolution reverb software which you can purchase at the bargain price of $700 --- check it out at http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=4625&CPID=281. This is very similar to the RoomSim that comes free in Samplitude 7.0. I haven't compared the two, but some of the folks on the Samplitude support sites claim to have tried them both and found them to be about equal in sound qualityPersonally, the Waves interface looks nicer to me, but not enough to shell out $700.
 
If you're in the market for upgrade equipment, I'd cover mics and pre-amps/converters before even thinking about software and reverb plugins. If you're trying to record pop/rock bands with an accoustic drum set, I'd recommend at the very least:

1 large diaphraghm condenser (I use a Studio Projects C1)
1 large diaphraghm dynamic (I use a D112)
2 small diaphragm condensers (I use Oktava MC012's)
as many SM 57's as you can get your hands on

Even if you will never see a drum kit in your life, I'd still get the selection above minus all but one of the 57's. If you'll never see a bass guitar or upright bass on top of that you can get rid of the large diaphragm dynamic.

I'm no expert at all in the pre-amp/converter field (I just use the stock stuff on my Roland VS), but careful research would do you alot of good. That stuff is important.

After all that is settled, find the best/largest room possible and learn how to treat it/position instruments. Learn how each of your mics sound in that room. Record the same part from the same instrument several times with each of them. Really listen to the recordings and learn how each mic changes the sound. Once you know your mics you can make much better choices when it comes time for the real thing.

After all that is settled, then start worrying about upgrading your software from the "home" eddition to the "pro" eddition and buying plugins and whatnot. The best software in the world won't help inadequate mics, rooms, and pre's/converters.

And remember, if you can't afford a "room simulator", the next best thing is to record a real room. You will be limited to a very small number of room sounds (and most likely they will all be small room sounds), but the results can still be great. If I like the room, I almost always put a large diaphragm condenser somewhere in the middle of the room in addition to whatever mic is up close on the instrument. I record the two of them to two different tracks, and then decide later how much, if any, of the room reverb mic I want to use. Not nearly as versitile as a reverb plugin, but free, and extreemly effective in the right circumstances.
 
Walter,

The Room Simulator in Samp 6.0 is a completely different beast than the RoomSim in 7.0.

My memory is that in 6.0, what they call a "Room Simulator" is basically a picture of a soundstage. You select from a list of preset rooms and click on where you want the sound to come from in the soundstage, and Samp processes the reverb and panning to position the track in the soundstage in that room.

In 7.0, however, the only similarity with the Room Simulator of 6.0 is that they use the same name. Room Simulator in 7.0 is a convolution reverb. Forget the soundstage thing and the presets. Basically, this is a reverb processor on steroids. Here's a quick explanation of convolution reverb, with the caveat that I'm no technical expert on this. You start with an "impulse," which is a small file containing a sample of the reflective qualities of a given room. The impulse can be something you create by miking the reflective qualities of a room, or something you create by sampling how a hardware reverb unit process a sound. (More likely, it's something you download for free from one of the many sites containing all sorts of impulses.) The impulse tells the convolution reverb effect how the room or the hardware unit affects the sound. The convolution reverb process your track based upon that impulse. You can fine tune the wet/dry ratio, etc.

The end result is that if you use an impulse that was recorded at the Rose Bowl, the track will sound like it was played in the Rose Bowl. If you use an impulse that was generated from a Lexicon 960, the track should sound like it is was recorded through a Lexicon 960.

By no means are you limited to any amount of presets --- to the contrary, the only limit is your ability to generate or download impulses. A tremendous resource is at http://www.noisevault.com/index.php?page=3&sid=03441f953d437356670bc9185c2b0030 There, they have impulses from all sorts of Lexicon units, a TC M5K, a Kurzweils KSP8, and all sorts of other hardware reverb units that cost thousands of dollars each and are way out of most of our leagues in terms of what we could ever afford. But with a convolution reverb program, you can effectively have tens of thousands of dollars worth of reverb units at your fingertips.

In the real world, how much your reverb sounds like that $3000 hardware unit from which the impulse was taken depends on (1) the faithfulness of the impulse to the original sound, and (2) the quality of the convolution reverb software. The quality of Samplitude's Room Simulator is extraordinary, so your only limit is the quality of the impulses you can get.

Waves has just come out with convolution reverb software which you can purchase at the bargain price of $700 --- check it out at http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=4625&CPID=281. This is very similar to the RoomSim that comes free in Samplitude 7.0. I haven't compared the two, but some of the folks on the Samplitude support sites claim to have tried them both and found them to be about equal in sound qualityPersonally, the Waves interface looks nicer to me, but not enough to shell out $700.
 
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