Some Advice, Please....

[Soul Coming]

OK, I just wanted to throw this out there and kind of break down how I plan to record some songs for my band. I am looking for advice on what I'm doing right, and what I'm doing wrong. So here it is:

The band has drums, bass, two guitars, a lead vocal and background vocal. Our sound is "modern rock", I guess. I have a laptop, an Alesis Multimix USB 8, decent monitors, drum mics, Digitech multi-effects pedals for the guitars, and a bass amp that has an XLR out on it. I also have a MXL 990 and 991. I am using Cakewalk 2002. I want to record the songs as good as I can, but I'm really just looking to out do the CD that we paid a "real" studio to track and mix for us.

My idea is to do this: Since I can't figure out how to record multiple instruments to different tracks at the same time, I'm going to generate a drum pattern using Fruity Loops and have the lead vocalist record a scratch vocal and guitar over it. Then I will play that back for my drummer through headphones, and let him track his drums to a track. I'll mic his drums into a bigger mixer (at my church) and record from the 2 track out of that mixer into my laptop. After that, I'll layer on my bass tracks, either through my amp, or directly into my Alesis mixer (suggestions?). Then I'll have both guitar players come over and lay in their tracks through the Digitech multi-effects pedals straight into the Alesis. Or should I mic amps? Finally, I'll have the vocalist drop in his final vocals, and go back and add some harmony background vocals. I plan to record the vocals with the MXL 990, in an open closet lined with cheap mattress cover foam, and draped blankets. I'll then go back and add any extras, like maybe some strings, piano, digital drums, etc. to different tracks. After that, I'm going to try to mix it the best I can.

So my question is this: With the equipment I have, and the plan I have laid out, do you have any ideas/suggestions that would help me get a better result in the end? I'd love to hear any ideas that you guys may have to help me along the way. Thanks in advance, and God Bless.

Mike Ferrell

 

[gtrman_66]

Question. Why do you want to "outdo" the recording you got from the "real" studio? Are you not satisfied with the results you got from them or is it just a challenge?I'm just asking that out of sheer curiosity.


That's a lot of work you're talking about, laying it down track-by-track, but it can be done. If you want a "better" cd than you got at the commercial facility, you only have one advantage working for you and that's time. Without a studio clock running and charging up by the hour, you have "all the time in the world" to do it.

Just remember, if you get a "better" cd than you got at the studio you did the last one at, it will most likely be reflected in the performances rather than the recording quality.

About the only advice I can give is, don't get locked in to a mindset about how to do anything. If something isn't working, don't be afraid to try something different.

One thing I would reccomend is getting the band together, rehearsing the tunes up and laying down a complete "scratch" version of each tune, just on a stereo track or whatever. with a click track and lay the other tracks up beside it if possible. you don't have to listen to it while recording, but it might be helpful to have a "live" version to refer back to during the recording process. It might help to keep the "feel" of a band playing together in the recording








Oh, and, mic the guitar amps, you'll like it better in the long run.

Good Luck

 

[Nick98338]

Pretty good plan Mike. Many groups do their tracking pretty close to the way you described. For your drummer, the rough guitar and rough vocal is usually enough. Drummers don't usually need to hear drums while they are playing their part, unless your drummer likes it that way. Rough guitar part first with a tic-track, separate tracks for each, so you can split them up later. Guitars and bass from the amp, or the digitech? Try both, you decide how you like the sound. Personal taste thing there. After all instruments are done, then drop the rough tracks out completely. Track the vocals while playing back the real music. Mix all instrument tracks together into one stereo track. Mix vocals into a separate stereo track. Finally, mix inst. track with vocal track. Good luck!

Nick
Mustard Seed Studio (just named it today)

 

[Soul Coming]

Question. Why do you want to "outdo" the recording you got from the "real" studio? Are you not satisfied with the results you got from them or is it just a challenge?I'm just asking that out of sheer curiosity.

I want to "outdo" the Studio recording because 1) I want to see if I can do it, and 2) I was kinda disappointed with the final product we got, but my bandmates were like "that sounds OK to me". So, I just want to show them that I could've done it just as well on my laptop and saved us some big $$$, but what do I know, right? I just play bass... They never listen to me. Thanks for the info so far, keep it coming!!

 

[ez_willis]

I just play bass... They never listen to me. !

Bwahahaaa!!!

Hey, at least you're not the drummer. They wouldn't even let you try!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

While it may work OK for some, I have a bit of a problem with the idea of re-recording the drums to follow the rhythm as created by the rest of the band, which in turn is trying to follow a machine. This is like asking the cart to pull the horse in my book. Your a bassman, you should know this already.

The rhythm section (typically percussion and bass) is the bedrock of a rock combo; you and the drummer provide the foundation on which the other members build the rest of the song. Put them first, and there's no foundation. Well, OK, you have a soul-less machine providing some foundation. Then you're asking the drummer to tag behing and follow everyone else?

What I'd recommend instead is to iso the drums with walls, blankets, mattresses, gobos, sofas, dead cats, whatever you have. Record them live with the rest of the band playing (use cue mixes through headphones if you have to.) Record just the drums (maybe your bass as well, you you and the drummer are locked tight during performance). If you still get a little bleed from the gits or something, that's OK, you'll be able to live with that if you keep it to a minimum. Then overdub the rest of the parts individually or in submixes as you see fit.

But if you have a decent drummer, having him follow instead of lead borders on sacrilige. Of course if your drummer sucks, then you'd be best leaving the fruity loops in instead .

G.

 

[Soul Coming]

I see exactly where you're coming from, and our drummer is awesome. The fact is, though, I am limited by equipment. I have a 12 channel mixer in my church where we practice, but in order to record the drums, I'd have to use 8 channels just for him, and that leaves 4 for bass, 2 guitars, and vocals. But if I run anything else into the mixer, it will record with the drums. So my idea is to create the rough track with the Fruity Loops drums just to capture the scratch vocal and guitar. Then I'll play back the vocal and guitar for the drummer to track with, but of course drop the drum loop. It may not be "the way" to do it, but due to limited equipment, it is my best solution. I will then scrap everything but the drums, and build all of the other tracks on THAT, not the Fruity Loops. The drummer will never even hear the Fruity Loops, only me and the lead vocalist. I think it'll sound good, and not "mechanical". Or, if it sounds like garbage, I'll feel better about it knowing that it cost me $0.00, right?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I see exactly where you're coming from, and our drummer is awesome. The fact is, though, I am limited by equipment. I have a 12 channel mixer in my church where we practice, but in order to record the drums, I'd have to use 8 channels just for him, and that leaves 4 for bass, 2 guitars, and vocals.

I'm not sure I understand the difference as far as channel capacity. Either way you're recording the 8 tracks of drums seperately, it's just a question of whether you record them before or after you record the rest of the band.

I'm not recommending recording the rest of the band with the drums, just having them play at the same time so the drummer can get that natural feel of playing with the band. but just record the drummer, let the others play without being recorded. Then come back and playback just the drum tracks as part of the cue mix in headphones and let the rest of the band record to that.

Or am I missing/misunderstanding something?

I can understand how isolation, though not impossible, can be much more of a problem if you're recording in a church. (I'd suggest if you were Roman Catholic or similar that you could use the confessionals as iso booths But tht would probably get me in trouble with The Big Guy .)

G.

 

[ndutle]

Actually he's only recording stereo. He's trying to mix the drums off the mixer to stereo and into the computer.

Running a USB mutimix is kinda tough that way. I got one too.

It would take a whole heckuva lot of listening while you're tracking the drums.

 

[TelePaul]

I want to "outdo" the Studio recording because 1) I want to see if I can do it, and 2) I was kinda disappointed with the final product we got, but my bandmates were like "that sounds OK to me". So, I just want to show them that I could've done it just as well on my laptop and saved us some big $$$, but what do I know, right? I just play bass... They never listen to me. Thanks for the info so far, keep it coming!!

This is a bit of a problem alot of bands in my locality have been faced with. They pay €300+ for a day of recording. They get a student engineer who invariably doesn't know jack; the session is for his benefit as much as the bands. He pretty much presses play, and the band have to make sure they know their stuff 200% or else it sounds like hammered shit.

As for the post, it's definetely doable having your drummer lay down a backing track. You might wanna try doing it in sections and syncing them up; I have very little experience with recording drums, but you can make a 4 bar phrase sound pretty good and then loop it.

 

[Nate74]

I'm lame... what is the limiting factor that keeps you from recording more than 2 tracks at at time? Is it the Alesis Multimix USB 8 or your PC?

 

[DavidK]

I'm lame... what is the limiting factor that keeps you from recording more than 2 tracks at at time? Is it the Alesis Multimix USB 8 or your PC?

The Alesis has two outputs I assume.

 

[Soul Coming]

OK, as far as recording two tracks at the same time, I mean like if I was to record lets say me on bass and another guy on guitar, and have the bass go to channel 1 and guitar to channel 2 separately with no bleed over. If that can be done on my Multimix with Cakewalk, I haven't figured it out yet. It probably is, but I haven't got it yet. Do you guys know how to do that?

 

[ndutle]

I believe it can be done, although I've never used cakewalk. I am using cubase LE and do this all the time. You need to set up two mono tracks, one with the input set to 1 or Left and the other set to 2 or Right.

Next pan your guitar hard left and your bass hard right. This sould take care of it.

 

[TelePaul]

I believe it can be done, although I've never used cakewalk. I am using cubase LE and do this all the time. You need to set up two mono tracks, one with the input set to 1 or Left and the other set to 2 or Right.

Next pan your guitar hard left and your bass hard right. This sould take care of it.

I'm pretty sure his mixer has two outs, for a stereo mix.

 

[ndutle]

sure does! I've got the Multimix USB8 also, I was just suggesting that he set up two MONO tracks in cakewalk and pan on the mixer to get it to record bass and guitar at the same time.

 

[TelePaul]

sure does! I've got the Multimix USB8 also, I was just suggesting that he set up two MONO tracks in cakewalk and pan on the mixer to get it to record bass and guitar at the same time.

Oh right sorry yeah good good, so 2 tracks at a time? thats doable. But I think i got lost in this thread, was the diea simultaneous recording? Or just drum recording?