[SOLVED] Audio track in DAW much quieter than it should be...

[Ally-007]

Hi all. I've experienced this issue occasionally in the two DAWs I've used: Tracktion Waveform and Reaper. It seems like occasionally one or more audio tracks lose volume, without me adjusting anything on that track. In Reaper, if I crank the track level or the clip gains up more, to try and restore the audible volume, the track self-mutes. In Tracktion, it just starts clipping. There is no double-tracking in place, so I guess it cannot be a phase cancellation issue. I've tried dragging the affected clips into new tracks, but the problem remains with the affected clips. I've checked my audio interface and that seems a-ok. I've tried changing the plugins on the track, in case one of them was causing it. That didn't help. I've aldo tried re-recording the affected clips, but that doesn't help either. Has anyone else experienced this? What can cause it? Many thanks..

I'm running Windows 10 with 64GB RAM, and a Behringer UMC202HD audio interface, with Asio4ALL (have also tried WASAPI but the problem remains).

 

[DM60]

Take the track that is causing the problem, I am guessing you may have pasted another track that is identical, and one of the tracks, invert the phase of the track. See if that fixes it.

 

[Ally-007]

Take the track that is causing the problem, I am guessing you may have pasted another track that is identical, and one of the tracks, invert the phase of the track. See if that fixes it.

Thanks for the suggestion, DM60, but that's not the case, unfortunately.

 

[TalismanRich]

When you look at the waveform in Reaper, do you see any peaks that abnormally large? One peak that is significantly louder than the rest of the track can trigger the mute in Reaper.

You mentioned different plug-ins. Which ones are you using? You can disable each one individually and see if one of them is causing the issue. Two types that can cause issues are compression and EQ. Many people will boost frequencies without realizing that it adds to the level.

 

[Ally-007]

When you look at the waveform in Reaper, do you see any peaks that abnormally large? One peak that is significantly louder than the rest of the track can trigger the mute in Reaper.

You mentioned different plug-ins. Which ones are you using? You can disable each one individually and see if one of them is causing the issue. Two types that can cause issues are compression and EQ. Many people will boost frequencies without realizing that it adds to the level.

I did have a clipper and a compressor on the track, momentarily, but only in an attempt to get the volume back (it didn't work). I still have EQ plugins on the tracks.

Thanks for the comment about peaks triggering a mute. I do have two or three very high peaks in the project. I wish I could find a plugin that would automatically clip those few extra-high peaks, without distorting any of the other 99.9% of the waveform. ATM, I just leave them as is, because they will clip automatically, anyway, and they are so brief that you can't tell when listing to the rendered project. They might add to the I-LUFFS slightly though, even though they are momentary. (Just gessing.)

 

[Papanate]

I did have a clipper and a compressor on the track, momentarily, but only in an attempt to get the volume back (it didn't work). I still have EQ plugins on the tracks.

Anyway, I ended up re-mixing the whole project, to accommodate the too-quiet clips. It seems to be reaonably satisfactory. It was a bit of a laborious balancing act. I got the I-LUFFS up to -14.4, which I gather is about right to avoid YouTube messing with the audio.

Thanks for the comment about peaks triggering a mute. I do have two or three very high peaks in the project. I wish I could find a plugin that would automatically clip those few extra-high peaks, without distorting any of the other 99.9% of the waveform. ATM, I just leave them as is, because they will clip automatically, anyway, and they are so brief that you can't tell when listing to the rendered project. They might add to the I-LUFFS slightly though, even though they are momentary. (Just gessing.)

With digital you can take a track that’s recorded to quietly and boost it way up with Digital Gain - Accommodating the Mix to Quiet Clips is the wrong way to go - you should figure out why they are too quiet and then re-record them.

 

[Farview]

You may be confusing level with volume. If you want everything louder, turn up the monitors.

 

[TalismanRich]

Ally, you have a limiter in Reaper that can limit your peaks. You can also use ReaComp, with a rather aggressive compression but only for the very large peaks. Set the threshold above the normal program material and only react to the high peaks. I have a setting that does about 6:1 compression, limits output and adds Make Up. I'll set the threshold above the majority of the track level, and it kicks in to cut peaks and bring up the level. It has worked well on some vocals that had a few spikes, but doesn't really change the majority of the track, although the Make Up setting will bring up the level of the lower portions.

 

[Ally-007]

Ally, you have a limiter in Reaper that can limit your peaks. You can also use ReaComp, with a rather aggressive compression but only for the very large peaks. Set the threshold above the normal program material and only react to the high peaks. I have a setting that does about 6:1 compression, limits output and adds Make Up. I'll set the threshold above the majority of the track level, and it kicks in to cut peaks and bring up the level. It has worked well on some vocals that had a few spikes, but doesn't really change the majority of the track, although the Make Up setting will bring up the level of the lower portions.

Many thanks for that, Rich. I've tried various limiters and compressors, but not ReaComp, so I will try that.
UPDATE: Yes! It did exactly what I needed (clip just my wild peaks), using some careful tweaking (although I don't fully understand all this plugin's features). Strangely, the next day, after re-recording some of the project's clips, I couldn't get it to tame my few wild peaks. I had to do some micro-editing of the project, instead.
NB: This is regarding the project master track, not re the problematic tracks, about which I originally posted. (Sorry for the thread bifurcation, folks.)

 

[Ally-007]

With digital you can take a track that’s recorded to quietly and boost it way up with Digital Gain - Accommodating the Mix to Quiet Clips is the wrong way to go - you should figure out why they are too quiet and then re-record them.

I agree, but hopefully re-recording won't be necessary if/when the problem is diagnosed and fixed. The clips in question weren't recorded quietly; there's something amiss, because the level meter on the track indicates that the sound level of the clips should be adequately loud. I'm just not hearing it though, and if I boost the gain much past 0dB, it distorts, without increasing in audible loudness, significantly, or, in the case of Reaper, the track self-mutes.

 

[rob aylestone]

I suspect that it probably is a duplicate path somewhere. Cancellation is the only thing i can think of that would prevent a visibly loud track being heard quietly. No strange routing hidden away anywhere?

 

[DM60]

Wave has a plugin that is called fader rider. There one for vocal and another for bass. I would think the vocal rider could do the trick or just automate the fader manually.

 

[Ally-007]

I suspect that it probably is a duplicate path somewhere. Cancellation is the only thing i can think of that would prevent a visibly loud track being heard quietly. No strange routing hidden away anywhere?

Not that I can find. The possibility of phase cancellation had occurred to me, but the problem clips and tracks are not duplicated.

 

[Ally-007]

Wave has a plugin that is called fader rider. There one for vocal and another for bass. I would think the vocal rider could do the trick or just automate the fader manually.

Thanks. That one looks very interesting.

 

[Ally-007]

It turned out that the issue was a bad connection in a jack socket.