Solution to tape path wear ?

[cjacek]

Let me bounce an idea off of you .... I've been thinking of using some type of material, mounting it onto the tape lifters and all stationary tape guides, perhaps a type of tubing or wrap made of teflon or something equally slippery, something which would save these parts from totally preventable wear.

Replacement of heads, eventually, is unavoidable but why have the extra headache, with trying to replace, file down or turn over the guides when prevention could be the best solution here ?

Has anyone the idea of how this can be done, with minimum of hassle ? If given the task, how would you do it ?

Thankyouverymuch!

 

[FALKEN]

Well those Akai GX heads supposedly don't wear at all..... unfortunately they weren't made in the most popular track formats.

 

[cjacek]

I was not talking about heads but rather the stationary tape guides and lifters on my TASCAM / TEAC multitrack recorders.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Diamonds would be pretty tough to wear down but might be a bit cost prohibitive!

I'm not sure about Teflon but I don't think it would stand up to the abrasive properties of magnetic tape?

Cheers!

 

[Tim Gillett]

Diamonds would be pretty tough to wear down but might be a bit cost prohibitive!

I'm not sure about Teflon but I don't think it would stand up to the abrasive properties of magnetic tape?

Cheers!

Agree on both counts.

Some machines had ceramic guides. Some of the little Nagra portables had ruby stationary guides.

Cheers Tim

 

[Dr ZEE]

Daniel, got me thinking for a while. And I am not sure what to say, really. My thought is that practical implementation of a such idea while maintaining "perfect" operation of the machine even "with minimum of hassle" will still come down to a lot of hassle. Well, that's what it seems to me like.
The least hassle would be to stock up a couple of spare pieces and forget about it. Or maybe compare your own life expectancy with the guide's under condition of being used while you are still around and are the user - and then again - forget about it
I guess you can rotate those metal sticks too...
Now, the question, are you imagining something like some sort of sleeves? They would have to be very precise. Making them as a custom pieces? - that sounds to me like not so far from making actually the posts and guides.
hmmmmmmm, I don't know. am I exaggerating?

 

[Dr ZEE]

oh, btw, speaking of teflon. I whish that sob would stay in place as advertized.
What else?
Toothbrushes! Damn, and they are NOT cheap ! But the makers (developers, that is ) of toothbrushes instead of working on making them to last are more concerned about implementing an "indicator" that reminds the user: "It's time for a new one" and about registering the word "Indicator" at PTO ...

 

[cjacek]

My thought is that practical implementation of a such idea while maintaining "perfect" operation of the machine even "with minimum of hassle" will still come down to a lot of hassle.

You def may be right here. Always looks good on paper though.

The least hassle would be to stock up a couple of spare pieces and forget about it.

I may very well just do that.

Or maybe compare your own life expectancy with the guide's under condition of being used while you are still around and are the user

Certainly a realistic way of looking at it. Good point.

I guess you can rotate those metal sticks too...

May be a royal pain in the ass but it's still a looooong way till I get to that point.

are you imagining something like some sort of sleeves?

Yes, something like a sleeve which fits tightly on the guides / lifters. I've seen some which shrink under heat but I don't think I'd fool with those.

 

[cjacek]

oh, btw, speaking of teflon. I whish that sob would stay in place as advertized.

...that's one of the reasons I threw out all my teflon cookware years ago. That and it's a damn poison! Don't you just luv modern science ?

the makers (developers, that is ) of toothbrushes instead of working on making them to last are more concerned about implementing an "indicator" that reminds the user: "It's time for a new one" and about registering the word "Indicator" at PTO ...

I'm glad you find this as ridiculous as I do.

 

[cjacek]

All good and valid points. Thanks guys!

 

[Dr ZEE]

funny thing to do ..heh heh
I thought maybe some company makes some variety of precission glass"ware". Imagine, a nicely fitting glass tube, not so tightly, but just right, and so it's not thick also.
I've found this lol
this is freakin' silly
Daniel, maybe you can invent something: roll your sleeves - make some sleeves to roll

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Depending on the machine's design, rotating the lifter and guide posts is not that big a deal. When I first got my MS-16, doing that task was one of the first DIY projects I performed on it. I also ordered new lifter posts and all three guide posts from TASCAM's parts department at that time and so, I am well supplied for the future and yes, at this stage of the game, I think my MS-16 will out live me!

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

at this stage of the game, I think my MS-16 will out live me!
Cheers!

Jeff! MS-16 is in your hands. Not other way around. So it's all up to you at any stage. The game is never over until it's over.

 

[cjacek]

Imagine, a nicely fitting glass tube, not so tightly, but just right, and so it's not thick also.

Yup, glass could be the ticket here!! I'll look into it! Thanks for the link, Mike. Maybe I'll come up with somethin'.

 

[cjacek]

Depending on the machine's design, rotating the lifter and guide posts is not that big a deal.

Indeed, on something higher up on the TASCAM tape deck chain, it'd be less of a hassle to rotate the guides, lifters etc but you're right about the a particular machine's design, 'cause I don't think this can be done on the 3440 and a 22-2 and some others. I checked the lifters (but not the guides) on those and they're really in there pretty good with no screw in place. I tried rotating it and no go. Jeff, are the guides and lifters on your MS-16 attached by screws ? What would be an indication that a particular guide / lifter could be rotated ?

 

[ofajen]

Replacement of heads, eventually, is unavoidable but why have the extra headache, with trying to replace, file down or turn over the guides when prevention could be the best solution here ?

Has anyone the idea of how this can be done, with minimum of hassle ? If given the task, how would you do it ?

For a minimum of hassle, I just stock up on spare guides. On 3M decks, the heads are the only fixed parts within the Isoloop. Incoming and outgoing tape guides are outside the loop. The guides do get some wear, but they are easy to replace, once you've run out of usable surface, which takes a good long time.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Jeff, are the guides and lifters on your MS-16 attached by screws ? What would be an indication that a particular guide / lifter could be rotated ?

Yes. Allen key ones for the three guide posts and for the lifters, I believe it was the same...I don't have a clear memory of them at this point as it was several years ago at this point so it might have been a standard Phillips screw head on those and to get at them, the head assembly must be removed as the screw is on the underside of that assembly so there's a bit more time involved to get at them but it's not brain surgery, especially if I could figure it out.

And in an unrelated subject, this is my 3000th post!

Cheers!

 

[cjacek]

Yes. Allen key ones for the three guide posts and for the lifters, I believe it was the same...I don't have a clear memory of them at this point as it was several years ago at this point so it might have been a standard Phillips screw head on those and to get at them, the head assembly must be removed as the screw is on the underside of that assembly so there's a bit more time involved to get at them but it's not brain surgery, especially if I could figure it out.

I hope it's the same for my TASCAM 58. Certainly looks like this can be done, especially that it's really their top of the line model and, based solely on eyeing it, looks like it's doable, like you describe for your machine.

Jeff, just from the top of your head, how's the TASCAM 388 and the TEAC 3440 in that regard ?

And in an unrelated subject, this is my 3000th post!

CONGRATULATIONS!!

 

[cjacek]

I just stock up on spare guides. .......<edit>.............. guides do get some wear, but they are easy to replace, once you've run out of usable surface, which takes a good long time.

Will keep this in mind, thanks!

 

[Beck]

Otari used to have little tubes for the MX5050 that slipped over the tape lifters. Ball bearing rollers are on the best machines (Most expensive anyway). The stationary guides near the heads on machines like the TASCAM and Fostex stuff have to stay just as they are though. They function as mechanical scrape flutter filters.

I’ve been looking into getting something like what Otari used to make for the lifters on my TSR-8. They are a nightmare to turn and TASCAM no longer sells the lifter assembly.

It is normally a good thing to reduce friction where you can.