Toki987
Rock Steady
Thanks Foo. No luck there though.
jimistone
long standing member
I went to a store in this area that is starting to build a name as the best place to get vintage (and used non-vintage) Gibsons and Fenders.
They didn't have any vintage guitars when I stopped by, but they had some used stuff. They flat out lied about 3 instruments.
A used Les paul Deluxe (probably early 80's):
The guitar has the slim deluxe type humbucker in the neck position and a full size humbucker on the bridge. Im thinking "someone roudered this axe out and put the fullsize humbucker on....I should be able to get a deal on this "butchered up" paul." They were asking $1800. The salesman says "that guitar hasn't been altered....its 100% original, it came from the factory like that. (the should be asking $18,000 for a one off custom guitar like that
)
One of those "daisy" strats with the large 70's headstock:
The guitar had obviously been dropped and the finish had a chunk knocked out of it and 3 skinned places where it "hit the floor". I hate that daisy pickguard/finish theme, but I liked the neck and I though it would make a great refinish project guitar. The salesman said that the price was $900. When I asked him why he was so high on a damaged guitar he said "Thats not damage....its a fender custom shop "relic". (it didn't have the custom shop logo on the back of the headstock)
A les paul custom refinished (mid 70s)
This Les Paul had the obsolute worst refinish job I have ever seen in my life. Gloss black polyurethane, shot over the old finish...with none of the scratchs or dings sanded and filled before the refinish. It looked horrible and you could see where binding had been taped. They were asking $1700 for it. I said "man, can you deal on the price of that refinished les paul?" The salesman said "you know, I thought that was a refinish too...but it is actually the original paint.
fuck those crooks!
They didn't have any vintage guitars when I stopped by, but they had some used stuff. They flat out lied about 3 instruments.
A used Les paul Deluxe (probably early 80's):
The guitar has the slim deluxe type humbucker in the neck position and a full size humbucker on the bridge. Im thinking "someone roudered this axe out and put the fullsize humbucker on....I should be able to get a deal on this "butchered up" paul." They were asking $1800. The salesman says "that guitar hasn't been altered....its 100% original, it came from the factory like that. (the should be asking $18,000 for a one off custom guitar like that
)One of those "daisy" strats with the large 70's headstock:
The guitar had obviously been dropped and the finish had a chunk knocked out of it and 3 skinned places where it "hit the floor". I hate that daisy pickguard/finish theme, but I liked the neck and I though it would make a great refinish project guitar. The salesman said that the price was $900. When I asked him why he was so high on a damaged guitar he said "Thats not damage....its a fender custom shop "relic". (it didn't have the custom shop logo on the back of the headstock)
A les paul custom refinished (mid 70s)
This Les Paul had the obsolute worst refinish job I have ever seen in my life. Gloss black polyurethane, shot over the old finish...with none of the scratchs or dings sanded and filled before the refinish. It looked horrible and you could see where binding had been taped. They were asking $1700 for it. I said "man, can you deal on the price of that refinished les paul?" The salesman said "you know, I thought that was a refinish too...but it is actually the original paint.
fuck those crooks!
F
faderbug
.
Light said:
strad lived from 1644 to 1737. more like 300 years. 600 years ago (the end of the middle ages) the modern violin wasn't yet invented. The violin got its definitive form between 1520 and 1550 in northern Italy.
it's getting more and more difficult to keep these old violins in playing condition the wood starts to crack and the glued joints get undone. most strads being played today underwent heavy restauration and are only played occasionally in climatised rooms and for concerts. consent is that they are way past their expiration date and the prices payed for them (millions of $) have nothing to do with the qualities they have left as instruments.
i suppose good instruments are just like good wine; they age to perfection and then they just go bad. but don't tell the poor guy who payed a fortune for a vintage martin that has just been glued together again and has become so fragile it only takes the lightest gauge strings!
just imagine what THAT does to your tone.
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littlebunny
New member
Ice age
There was a news story re: why Stradivarius' were so good not too long ago. I first saw it on Yahoo's home page news section, then again on local nightly news so it definitely made the rounds. I believe the working theory was climate.
Strad's were made from high density wood from trees that grew during a "mini ice age" (basically just very cold weather) from around 1650-1700. Trees grow slower in colder weather, producing denser wood.
There was a news story re: why Stradivarius' were so good not too long ago. I first saw it on Yahoo's home page news section, then again on local nightly news so it definitely made the rounds. I believe the working theory was climate.
Strad's were made from high density wood from trees that grew during a "mini ice age" (basically just very cold weather) from around 1650-1700. Trees grow slower in colder weather, producing denser wood.
c7sus
Disenfranchised Member
I've got an old Luthier's Mercantile catalog around here with an article by Jose Oribe about soundboards and he is pretty quick to dispel the myths about spruce, cedar, and redwood tops "losing their sound" and getting dull over time. His opinion is that guitars that are built "too loose" to begin with will suffer this fate, and that in vintage instruments the cause is usually poor maintainence and the breakdown of glues and finishes.
Light
New member
faderbug said:
So I took a little license there. My point was that they were really old.
faderbug said:
Well, no quality acoustic instrument should ever be outside of a climate controlled environment for any significant period of time. Maybe it is time for me to do another post on humidity?
Actually, most Strads, and any that are being used for music more modern than the baroque period, have new NECKS, not just major restoration. Paganinni wrote music for violins with longer necks, which became the standard for violins. Also, violins are designed to come apart easily for repair. They are made with hide glue, even to this day, which comes apart easily with heat and moisture. They also are put together is such away as to be easier to disassemble than (for instance) guitars. Good quality repair work on a violin will have no noticeable effect on the sound of the instrument. And wood getting dryer only makes the instrument sound better, as long as it doesn't get so bad the wood cracks. Anyone who buys an instrument like that, hopefully, understands the importance of keeping their instrument humidified.
faderbug said:
Many vintage Martins where designed for gut strings. They certainly can not handle heavier steel strings, and the effect on the sound is not bad, because they are designed for lighter strings. Any of the ones which are designed for steel strings (all of the Dreadnaughts, for instance, as well as all of the fourteen fret OO and OOOs) can handle a standard set of steel mediums, as long as they have been well taken care of. They will, at some point, need a neck reset (or may have already needed one), but that is normal. It is pretty much taken as a given in the guitar building community (except for a few idiots who have never done any repair work in their life, but only a very few) that every acoustic steel string will need a neck reset at some point in its life. Seeing as most builders cover this as a warranty issue (Martin does, so the rest of us have too, which is fine with me), who really cares. Just avoid steel string guitars with spanish heels, though you could check out the article on frets.com about Franck Ford’s neck reset on a spanish heel. Very cool, very impressive work.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
drstawl
Banned
So what that I was 8 when this guitar was made?Treeline said:Yeah, yeah - You just bought it new and yer 20 years older than you let on....
My brother gave it to me when I was 12.
It still sits in the case in the next room despite attempts by obnoxious police officials to have it destroyed by an unwitting 3rd party. Youch that would have sucked!
F
faderbug
.
light you have me confused in your profile you describe yourself as stagehand, lighting designer, musician and audio dude.
still you seem the expert on guitars.
is building and repairing guitars a hobby of yours?
still you seem the expert on guitars.
is building and repairing guitars a hobby of yours?
Sky Blue Lou
Well-known member
Last summer I bought a Les Paul privately from the guy that owns the guitar shop I use. Early 70's or so, this thing is a bit of a mongrel. It started life as a Deluxe with the skinny pickups and then had the bridge spot routed for a Dimarzio. Evidently the owner at the time thought it looked stupid so he routed the neck spot and dropped a standard Gibson PU in there.
We know all this 'cause my friend has known this guitar for over twenty years. Some time prior to his becoming acquainted with it it may have been aquired in an illegitimate fashion - no serial number - or rather it has been obliterated ("The bitter comes out better on a stolen guitar..."). It's a sunburst finish and kind of beat.
Does this thing have any collecter value? I don't think so. Was it worth the $1000 I paid for it? Damn right it was. This baby is a player. Best guitar for the price I think I could have gotten.
Point is I'm happy with it and I'll never sell it.
lou
PS - There were some pictures of some of the guys playing it in the Jamfest photo threads back along.
We know all this 'cause my friend has known this guitar for over twenty years. Some time prior to his becoming acquainted with it it may have been aquired in an illegitimate fashion - no serial number - or rather it has been obliterated ("The bitter comes out better on a stolen guitar..."). It's a sunburst finish and kind of beat.
Does this thing have any collecter value? I don't think so. Was it worth the $1000 I paid for it? Damn right it was. This baby is a player. Best guitar for the price I think I could have gotten.
Point is I'm happy with it and I'll never sell it.
lou
PS - There were some pictures of some of the guys playing it in the Jamfest photo threads back along.
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A
ai-tastic
New member
great discussions.
i'm a rather young 'un so i don't have the ability to enjoy the great guitars of the past, but i'm enjoying the new ones of the present right now. i think there's a sort of sacredness/personal relationship that develops when you put the dents and dings on a guitar yourself, and i know a lot of guitar players (not collectors!) feel this way. being able to tell which was your first ding and why it happened is quite a bit different than saying "oh, i had it beat up in a shop." growing and aging with a guitar is one of the greatest things to experience and also that reaction when you do make that first love wound to your baby.
i'm a rather young 'un so i don't have the ability to enjoy the great guitars of the past, but i'm enjoying the new ones of the present right now. i think there's a sort of sacredness/personal relationship that develops when you put the dents and dings on a guitar yourself, and i know a lot of guitar players (not collectors!) feel this way. being able to tell which was your first ding and why it happened is quite a bit different than saying "oh, i had it beat up in a shop." growing and aging with a guitar is one of the greatest things to experience and also that reaction when you do make that first love wound to your baby.
Toki987
Rock Steady
I had a 72 Precision, walnut finish with maple neck. I had told my girlfriend I was moving out and walked out into the garage, she stood at the kitchen door and said "Take this bitch with you then" and pitched my bass out into the garage. I watched in total horror as it bounced off the concrete flooring. Fortunately it only scratched the back bottom edge and the back of the headstock. I was willing to lose the whole thing though, by splitting it over her fugen head.
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ai-tastic
New member
OUCH! that's horrible that she would do that.
i have the usual stories of accidentally banging against things while having the guitar on, or leaving my babies against the wall and having them tilt over.
i think the closest call i've had was that i was recording with my taylor, doorbell rang, i set it on the floor, came back down and the mic stand had fallen and the end of the boom had missed my guitar by an inch. the mic itself was balancing the stand 2 inches above the actual guitar. i nearly peed my pants when i saw it.
i have the usual stories of accidentally banging against things while having the guitar on, or leaving my babies against the wall and having them tilt over.
i think the closest call i've had was that i was recording with my taylor, doorbell rang, i set it on the floor, came back down and the mic stand had fallen and the end of the boom had missed my guitar by an inch. the mic itself was balancing the stand 2 inches above the actual guitar. i nearly peed my pants when i saw it.
Light
New member
faderbug said:
I was lucky enough to be born into my family. My father owns a guitar shop, where I basically grew up. He builds, and we have four full time employees doing repairs. We do warranty work for Martin, Gibson, Fender, Taylor, and just about every other major American manufacturer. My first guitar, which I was given for my eighth birthday, was a custom Koa guitar. I built my first guitar (with a lot of help from my father) when I was thirteen. It was a Strat, with an explorer headstock, a very eighties guitar, doing my best to copy Eddie Van Halen's guitars, though I could never do the playing style. I made about four electric guitars while I was a teenager, and when I was 20, I forced my dad to help me build an acoustic. I spent about seven years out in Boston, studying at Berklee. A few years I moved back home, and have built a decent career doing lighting and sound for corporate events. I have built a whole bunch of guitars since then, and am (these days) concentrating more on the guitar shop than anything else, though I still take a bunch of stagehand and lighting jobs, as the shop only almost covers my bills.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Buck62
噛んでくれ
I just thought I'd bump this thread for old-times sake.
K
kq300325
New member
I have a real vintage guitar, it says so on the headstock!! LOL!!
D
Dani Pace
New member
Face it guys, vintage is in the eye of the beholder, or in the hands of the holder. Over the years I've owned two guitars which would have likely qualified as vintage to a serious collector. One was a 55 Gibson Les Paul, the other was a 62 Fender Telecaster, both of which were gotten from "good old farm boys," who didn't really know what they had. Whether these were actually vintage or not I'll never know, I bought them both to play which I did for several years then sold them for a nice profit.
To me the real value of a guitar, any guitar, is in how it plays and sounds. Sure looks are important but pretty wont make an instrument play or sound the least bit better. The whole purpose of a guitar is to make music, the one in the display case dosen't do that. So in my opinion the real vintage guitar is the beat up old (insert name here) that has been played night after night for years, been knocked over and dropped countless times, hauled around in all sorts of weather... and still holds together and begs you to play it.
To me the real value of a guitar, any guitar, is in how it plays and sounds. Sure looks are important but pretty wont make an instrument play or sound the least bit better. The whole purpose of a guitar is to make music, the one in the display case dosen't do that. So in my opinion the real vintage guitar is the beat up old (insert name here) that has been played night after night for years, been knocked over and dropped countless times, hauled around in all sorts of weather... and still holds together and begs you to play it.
Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
Hell yes! I've not seen it put better in quite awhile.Dani Pace said:
WERNER 1
Member
Very good thread!!!
I'm pretty sure that my 64' SG Standard is original............or the guy that appraised it wouldn't have kept sticking his business cards in my pocket the whole time I was in there!
I actually got/purchased it from my Step dad who doesn't play or anything, but some how came across this guitar in the early 70's.........been sitting ever since...........Best 150 bucks I ever spent!!!!!
When I was having it appraised, I told the guy it was a 64', (I had sent a butt load of pics to Gibson along with the serial #'s ) he didn't even really look at the serial #'s, he just took the back cover plate off and checked the pots..........Yep, it's a 64'. Basically they said it was worth between 5 and 6 thousand dollars.
Ever since then I've been keeping it in my new SKB SG case and pretty much decided not to play it.....all though I had just spent a couple hundred bucks to get it back in "working" order.- Fret level / Recrown - Polish the frets out. clean up all the pots, switch, and jack. Buff out the some deep scratches on the back of the neck, and put a new nut on it (I kept the old one incase I ever do sell it.) I wanted to replace the nylon saddles on the bridge, but they kept trying to talk me out of it........it isn't like I'm going to throw them away or something.
Bottom line is that a couple of weeks ago I got the thing out to show to someone and started playing it.......Now I can't keep my hands off of it! It plays so nice and smooth as well as sounds killer as well. One part of me wants to hang it on the wall in a glass case, and the other wants to rip on it every day........oh the turmoil!
I've been playing for 25 years, and I never have bought into all the "hype" about the "mystic vintage" guitars.......but in this one case, it's true!
Rick
My 64' SG Standard: https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Savemaker1/Myguitars052.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Savemaker1/IMG_0266.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Savemaker1/IMG_0286.jpg
I'm pretty sure that my 64' SG Standard is original............or the guy that appraised it wouldn't have kept sticking his business cards in my pocket the whole time I was in there!
I actually got/purchased it from my Step dad who doesn't play or anything, but some how came across this guitar in the early 70's.........been sitting ever since...........Best 150 bucks I ever spent!!!!!
When I was having it appraised, I told the guy it was a 64', (I had sent a butt load of pics to Gibson along with the serial #'s ) he didn't even really look at the serial #'s, he just took the back cover plate off and checked the pots..........Yep, it's a 64'. Basically they said it was worth between 5 and 6 thousand dollars.
Ever since then I've been keeping it in my new SKB SG case and pretty much decided not to play it.....all though I had just spent a couple hundred bucks to get it back in "working" order.- Fret level / Recrown - Polish the frets out. clean up all the pots, switch, and jack. Buff out the some deep scratches on the back of the neck, and put a new nut on it (I kept the old one incase I ever do sell it.) I wanted to replace the nylon saddles on the bridge, but they kept trying to talk me out of it........it isn't like I'm going to throw them away or something.
Bottom line is that a couple of weeks ago I got the thing out to show to someone and started playing it.......Now I can't keep my hands off of it! It plays so nice and smooth as well as sounds killer as well. One part of me wants to hang it on the wall in a glass case, and the other wants to rip on it every day........oh the turmoil!
I've been playing for 25 years, and I never have bought into all the "hype" about the "mystic vintage" guitars.......but in this one case, it's true!
Rick
My 64' SG Standard: https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Savemaker1/Myguitars052.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Savemaker1/IMG_0266.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Savemaker1/IMG_0286.jpg
C
Cheeky Monkey
New member
In '76 I bought a '58 Strat for $300. It was a real nice guitar -- already well-worn -- a "player" as described in other posts. It's a long story as to why I decided to sell it in 2002 -- but I did -- on ebay for what I consider to be a rediculous amount of money. But who am I to argue? In selling it, I had no intention of being without a Strat, so I bought a '57 Reissue. The '58 was quite nice, but I really don't miss it. I used the money very productively. And the '57 Reissue IS a nice guitar. It feels/plays good now, but in time, I believe it'll match my old '58 -- and I will have put ALL the mileage on it!
I'm not surprised that fakes are being built that are hard to distinguish from original vintage. Buyer beware, I guess. As nice as vintage guitars can be, I'm glad I'm out of that mentality.
I'm not surprised that fakes are being built that are hard to distinguish from original vintage. Buyer beware, I guess. As nice as vintage guitars can be, I'm glad I'm out of that mentality.
snipeguy
Andy Goldsworthy Wannabe
Great post Jimi. I like you, I play a '64 Strat that I bought for $300 CDN at Powels Music and Luggage in 1976. He didn't even have it out on display as he thought it "wouldn't move very fast". Since then I have played (and still do) the shit out of that guitar. Three fret jobs, two volume pots, Gretsch knobs (it came like that) finish completly toasted (cigarette burn on headstock, I don't smoke anymore) various bridge saddles as the old one were eaten away by my chemically laced sweat of the past, etc. It's a great guitar that's probably worth a mint, but so what. I'll never sell it. It's my axe. I hate this whole vintage thing as it put's a lot of instruments out of the hands of players and into the hands of collectors. Who can forget Spinal Tap and "...don't touch it, don't even look at it." I also own some real "cheap" guitars that sound great and I wouldn't get rid of them either. Guitars are for playing, not for bragging about their monetary value.jimistone said: