So why doesn't it sound the same as the CD ?

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eceuk

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So I listened to the CD (piano piece) and then bought the sheet music. I then learned the song and plugged in the Fantom X8 to the computer and recorded it.

I use this example to try to illustrate my question:

What is the single piece of rack gear that creates that "set-back" image on the CD but appears to be "up close and personal" with the direct sound from the synth ? (No harping on about the merits or not of the Fantom)

I'm sure you know what I mean, so how the hell do you achieve this ???? Is it purely with compression and/or reverb ? Or is this the mystery that is mastering ????

I guess another way of getting the answer would be to ask: How do I record a piano piece to CD marketable quality: What processes/processors would you use. !!!! If nothing else please tell me I'm right about the "set-back" sound or put me out of my misery and tell me what it's really called.
 
you'll need a couple of proper mic/mics, a properly conditioned room, a preamp for you mics, optionally a mixer, a computer, probably some eq, compression and reverb modules, and a mastering module, which will prove to be pretty useless compared to sending your mix to an expensive mastering facility, where they'll run your mix throug a dozen or so machines and will give your recording market-quality.

probably i've forgotten a lot of things, but more or less that's what you'll need
 
You need MIXING SKILLS....and the proper tools to accomplish mixing
 
Thanks Teacher for the invaluable advise :rolleyes:

Could anybody else with such insight into the bleeding obvious please refain from posting it here.
 
and what song are we talking about?
are you asking why is the Fantom X8 not sounding like a $50/60,000 Steinway grand piano? recorded in a acoustically treated studio, with quality equipment and experienced engineers and musicians? you're asking why you can't replicate this in your house...and what single peice of gear can make it sound exactly like the CD??




i'm gonna have to say there isn't one.
 
eceuk said:
Thanks Teacher for the invaluable advise :rolleyes:

Could anybody else with such insight into the bleeding obvious please refain from posting it here.
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If its so obvious why ask such an ascinine question in the first place?

If there was one particular box or thing that made a CD sound like a CD..the top mixing engineers wouldn't be getting like 10K per song to mix... :rolleyes:
 
Plugging directly into your PC/soundcard is probably not the best idea either. Running into a kick ass DI like the avalon U5 then into a high quality A/D converter might help some.
 
If you're talking about a piece arranged for piano (and not just a honky-tonk accompaniment to a rock song), youa re talking about one of the most demanding tracking jobs there is for a critical ear. You want a good piano sound under those conditions, you got to use high-quality mics with the proper mic placement in a decent room going into better-than-average (at least) preamps to start with. You don't have all that at your base and everything else down the chain is a house of cards built on a vibrating hotel bed.

What do I mean by high-quality mics? There are a lot of ways to go, but typically either a stereo pair of decent SDCs or LDCs in the piano and perhaps an LDC outside the paino's near field for fill. If the room sucks, the outer LDC may not work and you might even want to try a boundary mic or two inside the box instead of the condensers.

What about mic placement? I could write a whole chapter on mic placement for piano, and many engineers with a LOT more experience than I have done just that. Read up on it.

But if you want it to sound anything close to pro quality, you *must* avoid the computer sound card, #1, and send your mics into at least half-way decent quality pres, #2. Recording a piano is one of the best ways to seperate the mice from the men when it comes to preamp quality. I'm not saying you have to use a $3K Focusrite (x2) - I have had suprisingly decent results with piano with a Rode NT4 going into a Tascam us122, believe it or not. But your average 4-channel mixer preamps or Soundblaster Audigy is just not going to cut anything but the cheese for this application, and dedicated quality pres will make all the difference in the world.

Also, get your piano professionally tuned if it has not been in a while. Amazing how that matters, even if it already sounds in tune. And stay away from using much EQ on a solo piano. If you're not getting that timbre you want, fix it with mic technique and not with EQ. Solo piano EQd more than a DB or two in spots sounds like excessive hooker makeup looks on an otherwise beautiful woman. :)

G.
 
Well, a lot fo what you are hearing on that CD is the room and the piano. That was then captured most likely by high end mics with high end preamps and converters. This allows the beauty of that room and instrument to make it to tape so that the mix engineer has the chance to finalize that sound for a disc.

In order to have any chance of making a keyboard sound like a real piano, you will need to start with at least good converters, or good midi samples. Then you will also need a good (read expensive) reverb. The better the reverb, the better the image will feel and it will make the track sound less and less like a digital recreation of a beautiful instrument in a beautiful room.

I know you said not to discuss the merits of the Fantom vs. a real piano. However, I feel like that has to be discussed given the nature of the question you posed. Personally, look inot some sampling software. Some of the piano soft samples now sound very good actually. The are cpu hogs, but they do a MUCH better job than ANY built in keyboard piano sound I have ever heard. They add a slight degree of randomness and imperfection that a real piano (even the very best ones) would also offer. This often times is one the quick and dead giveaways of a keyboard. The degree of consistency is too high.

The truth is though that as of yet, it is very hard to match a great acoustic recording. Its kind of like my dog. He will never look like my cat. If however I have some real skill, I may be able to dress my dog up well enough that from a distance I could almost make you believe that he was my cat. However, once you get close enough, you will still be able to tell. Thats how recording is. Sometimes things sound just fine if we just sort of let them run in the backround. However, if you turn it up a little and pay attention, you can often find either little or big mistakes or giveaways in the music. This is even true of commercially released CD's. The true talent is with the engineers and musicians that can make you believe no matter how critically you listen:)
 
OK lets just clear a few thing up.

bennychico11: The song doesn't matter !!!! and to answer a question (which you have so clearly missed the point of) with another pretentious "I'm from the USA we rule the world don't ya know" sort of attitude: doesn't help anybody.

Teacher: What is it that you actually teach ? It's certainly not English because its spelt asinine. It's not silly anyway. I posted the question to try to get some insight. Which, thanks to others, we've managed to achieve.

To all others....many thanks, it's interesting to get other points of view.
 
eceuk said:
bennychico11: The song doesn't matter !!!! and to answer a question (which you have so clearly missed the point of) with another pretentious "I'm from the USA we rule the world don't ya know" sort of attitude: doesn't help anybody.
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dude, you need to learn to not take offense to replies made by people. we're trying to point out the obvious to you and tell you that recording isn't easy. you can't just go out and buy a single peice of gear to make everything better. The reason I asked about the song is because I was wondering if it was a song that was originally recorded on a synth piano or a song that was recorded on a real piano. That makes a HUGE difference in what you're asking. If the CD you're hearing is of a synth, then it is a logical question to ask maybe what they did to it to make it sound better...because synth pianos suck. And in that case, we would need to know what song it was so maybe we can listen to it and let you know what they did. You're just asking "how'd they do that"...but we haven't heard it, so we can't say. So you see, my question was totally relevant.

Second...i'll repeat again RECORDING AIN'T EASY. We're trying to give you a wake up call here man. If it was a real grand piano, recorded in an acoustically treated facility with great mics, great preamps, a great console, a great engineer and great musician with that perfect touch.....do you see where I'm going here?? A synth piano, with Cubase and loads of free VST plugins that you pulled off of websites or even bought, are in no way shape or form going to give you a replicant of the CD. Period.
 
I'll probably say a silly thing.

The only opinion eceuck asked for was "What processes/processors would you use"

Posting messages wondering about why he/she does this or that question may not be very helpful

my 2 cents
 
verytorpe said:
I'll probably say a silly thing.

The only opinion eceuck asked for was "What processes/processors would you use"

Posting messages wondering about why he/she does this or that question may not be very helpful

my 2 cents
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well, maybe i'm the only one who's not getting it here...and if i'm in the wrong, then i apologize for not understanding your question.

but the title of the post was "So why doesn't it sound the same as the CD?" And he requested an answer on what was a single peice of gear that would make everything all better. Hopefully you can see why I just figured this was another post of "my mixes don't sound like professional ones...why not?"
 
Why don't the pictures I take on my camera phone look like Ansel Adams pieces? Can I fix it in photoshop? :rolleyes:
Drop the bad attitude and maybe you'll learn something.
 
A single piece of gear....

I'd start with a real grand piano.

They start at 30K.
 
Search please. You're questions are basic and will probably be found in the newbies section.

A direct answer to your question is "no, there is no single piece of equipment that creates your 'set-back' image". Reverb will make it seem less "up front", but it's not the only thing to consider.

There is a reason why there is a whole set of forums dedicated to home recording. What you want answered in a single thread is what EVERY potential sound engineer wants to know about their whole future career.
 
Yeah, I was pretty much scratching my head over this question.... :D

I mean we get a lot of innocent/naive questions about how to get the best sound possible, but this one was just out there :confused:

Extra smiley for effect - :eek:

TexRoadkill said:
Sweet, we have our asshole of the week.
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I was in New York the other day. Some guy with a guitar came up to me and asked "How do I get to Madison Square Garden?". I said "Practice".
 
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