So what's a real soundcard look like?
- Thread starter gaffa
- Start date
sonusman
Banned
Yikes!!! You mean my Lynx One card is only a "pro-sumer" card?
Well, at least it's A/D conversion sounds about as good as Apogee's do....
Ed
Well, at least it's A/D conversion sounds about as good as Apogee's do....
Ed
T.J.Hooker
New member
Wouldn't you consider the digidesign AudiomediaIII, MOTU 2408, or Event Layla all professional cards ? 
T.J.Hooker
New member
Good call, Looking at it that way, I bet there is all kinds of pro cards.
gaffa
Recalcitrant Member
I was just thinking about this in relation to video editing on machines. In that arena (and I'm not an expert, so it's entirely possible I'm speaking through my arse here), there seems to be cheap $100 cards (consumer), cards around the $500-$3000 mark (prosumer), and the hardcore systems like Avid and Media 100.
I guess that the ProTools setups would be professional, but if Ed used a Soundblaster card to record, that still wouldn't make the SB card a professional card (probably be a reflection on Ed more than the card, I guess)
- gaffa
I guess that the ProTools setups would be professional, but if Ed used a Soundblaster card to record, that still wouldn't make the SB card a professional card (probably be a reflection on Ed more than the card, I guess)
- gaffa
sonusman
Banned
I suppose you can start calling a soundcard "professional" it is operates at +4 with balanced inputs.
From there, you would need to consider the s/n ratio specs, and possibly how well it deals with jitter.
Also, for a soundcard to be truely pro, it would need to pass a null test. Go to www.digido.com to learn what that is all about.
The Lynx card has work clock I/O, two midi I/O ports, AES/EBU and S/PDIF digital I/O, as well as +4 or -10 operating levels on XLR connectors. It is full duplex (most cards are now a days), and has extremely low latency, especially low latancy for midi too.
It has NT drivers, and they have Beto ASIO drivers for Windows 9x systems. The NT4 driver has worked just as well on Windows 2000 as it did on NT4, but, I cannot use Wavelab with this card on 2000 because of a little mix up in Wavelab working with soundcards with integrated mixers with Win2K.
All that sounds pretty pro to me...
I think cards like the Turtle Beach, and possibly the SB Live would be considered "pro-sumer", and only because they do offer some digital I/O.
The consumer cards would be like the older SB and Yamaha cards.
Now, with the "professional" cards, you definately start getting into the whole subtle area of converter "quality". Some have converters that sound exceptional, some have more average sounding converters.
ProTools is a turnkey type system. It is made to utilize their hardware/software combo. The is also Soundscape, and Sadie too that are the same. I have seen a few other of these types of systems. The take that I get on the converter "quality" of these systems is that they are more or less in line with like the Echo cards. What makes these systems popular with major studios is that they come complete and just about ready to go. The hardware/software capatibility issues have been worked out. Also, ProTools and Soundscape, and Sadie usually do their own DSP. The computer that you run these systems on usually just "host" the software. When you go to execute some kind of processing, the external box usually provides the DSP. In the case of the Soundscape and Sadie systems, they have their own hard drives too. So really, the computer just is a way to get the GUI, and to execute DSP. Usually these systems have superior designed software.
Ed
From there, you would need to consider the s/n ratio specs, and possibly how well it deals with jitter.
Also, for a soundcard to be truely pro, it would need to pass a null test. Go to www.digido.com to learn what that is all about.
The Lynx card has work clock I/O, two midi I/O ports, AES/EBU and S/PDIF digital I/O, as well as +4 or -10 operating levels on XLR connectors. It is full duplex (most cards are now a days), and has extremely low latency, especially low latancy for midi too.
It has NT drivers, and they have Beto ASIO drivers for Windows 9x systems. The NT4 driver has worked just as well on Windows 2000 as it did on NT4, but, I cannot use Wavelab with this card on 2000 because of a little mix up in Wavelab working with soundcards with integrated mixers with Win2K.
All that sounds pretty pro to me...
I think cards like the Turtle Beach, and possibly the SB Live would be considered "pro-sumer", and only because they do offer some digital I/O.
The consumer cards would be like the older SB and Yamaha cards.
Now, with the "professional" cards, you definately start getting into the whole subtle area of converter "quality". Some have converters that sound exceptional, some have more average sounding converters.
ProTools is a turnkey type system. It is made to utilize their hardware/software combo. The is also Soundscape, and Sadie too that are the same. I have seen a few other of these types of systems. The take that I get on the converter "quality" of these systems is that they are more or less in line with like the Echo cards. What makes these systems popular with major studios is that they come complete and just about ready to go. The hardware/software capatibility issues have been worked out. Also, ProTools and Soundscape, and Sadie usually do their own DSP. The computer that you run these systems on usually just "host" the software. When you go to execute some kind of processing, the external box usually provides the DSP. In the case of the Soundscape and Sadie systems, they have their own hard drives too. So really, the computer just is a way to get the GUI, and to execute DSP. Usually these systems have superior designed software.
Ed
hey Ed! someone mentioned before that you make money from your card right .. So u obviously use pc based recording in a profesional environment .. So how do u provide a perfectly stable pc to record on?
Please tell me im not the only one who has shaky sessions???? And back with what is a professional card ? im using a guillemot ISIS card with logic audio.. Could that be classed as a pro card ....mmm far from i believe, but just wanted someone elses opinion..anyway cheers everyone..
spider...
Please tell me im not the only one who has shaky sessions???? And back with what is a professional card ? im using a guillemot ISIS card with logic audio.. Could that be classed as a pro card ....mmm far from i believe, but just wanted someone elses opinion..anyway cheers everyone..
spider...
gaffa
Recalcitrant Member
I reckon that's a pretty fair description of a pro soundcard requirements, Ed. Thanks.
I guess it's kind of what I assumed, that the market sort of divides as you get further up the ladder, into the turnkey and individual soundcard segments.
All I need now is a rack of Apogee gear. (In my dreams, says he of the SB 128...)
- gaffa
I guess it's kind of what I assumed, that the market sort of divides as you get further up the ladder, into the turnkey and individual soundcard segments.
All I need now is a rack of Apogee gear.
(In my dreams, says he of the SB 128...)- gaffa
I agree gaf , that rack really needs filling.. You know you have problems when your buying or building huge rack systems only to find itll take two years to fill them ... oh well best to be prepared.
Well i find it to be a great card , it has all the channels i need , a few more outputs would be good (only 4) but hey thats what a huge desk is for .... thanks gaf
Well i find it to be a great card , it has all the channels i need , a few more outputs would be good (only 4) but hey thats what a huge desk is for .... thanks gaf
sonusman
Banned
Spider, I mix TO my computer, no ON the computer. I very big difference indeed!
I do mastering on the computer, using Wavelab 3.0 with a variety of plug in's.
As far as staying stable, there is only one true solution for this in the PC world, NT based OS's (NT4 or Windows 2000). I am using NT4 at this point because of some capatibility issues with Wavelab and soundcards with integrated mixers in 2000.
NT NEVER crashes on me while I am recording or mastering. If you are using 9x OS's, once you try NT, you will never go back, even if you lose a little bit of capatibility, or a few features. NT is just a far more stable OS, and is really hard to mess up once you get it set up right.
About the ISIS. No, I don't think it could be classified as a "Pro" sound card. I am sure that for the money it is a decent deal, but from what I have read in reviews, and seen of the features, it is really not in line with what I would consider a pro sound card.
I do mastering on the computer, using Wavelab 3.0 with a variety of plug in's.
As far as staying stable, there is only one true solution for this in the PC world, NT based OS's (NT4 or Windows 2000). I am using NT4 at this point because of some capatibility issues with Wavelab and soundcards with integrated mixers in 2000.
NT NEVER crashes on me while I am recording or mastering. If you are using 9x OS's, once you try NT, you will never go back, even if you lose a little bit of capatibility, or a few features. NT is just a far more stable OS, and is really hard to mess up once you get it set up right.
About the ISIS. No, I don't think it could be classified as a "Pro" sound card. I am sure that for the money it is a decent deal, but from what I have read in reviews, and seen of the features, it is really not in line with what I would consider a pro sound card.
hey cheers a lot for that ed!!!
i agree , from what ive seen it isnt either, but it performs (as a soundcard) quite well!!! But im really interested to hear about runnin NT ?? Is it the usual NT u will find in most busineses???? That sounds really good ... so is it a lot different to 98 ??? Ive really been searching or a really stable os???? Thanks heaps ed!!! could u let me know if its just the normal NT????
cheers
spider
i agree , from what ive seen it isnt either, but it performs (as a soundcard) quite well!!! But im really interested to hear about runnin NT ?? Is it the usual NT u will find in most busineses???? That sounds really good ... so is it a lot different to 98 ??? Ive really been searching or a really stable os???? Thanks heaps ed!!! could u let me know if its just the normal NT????
cheers
spider
sonusman
Banned
You will want NT4 Workstation. Works very stable. If you get it, you can contact me, or even Slackmaster about any issues you may have installing it or getting it to run properly if you have any problems. But I think that you will find that right out of the box, NT is stable as hell.
Ed
Ed
gaffa
Recalcitrant Member
Spider, option number two is Win2000, especially given that Service Pack 1 is about to be released. While I haven't had much exposure to Win2000, apparently its pretty stable, more so than NT in many cases. Win98 is the poor mans cousin - avoid it if possible cos it's not that stable, and you get better performance recording from WinNT anyway.
- gaffa
- gaffa
thanks for that ed and gaf , much appreciated .. i dont think i can quite afford 2000 yet so im trying to locate someone around this way with NT..it just costs a little more than i have right now.. Im really not sure how many people know about win98 being quite unsuitable (is that exagerating??) for audio!! ill definetly try and get NT though , hey and thanks for the offer of help guys,
cheers for that ..
Spider
cheers for that ..
Spider
I hear all these issues with Win98's stablity and I wonder how I got the "lucky machine". Sometimes I run days between reboots while doing a lot of fairly heavy audio stuff. Not recommended... normally I'll reboot at least once a day to keep things fresh, even when I'm developing under NT
I won't be silly and argue that NT or 2000 aren't more solid, but 98 has never been the nightmare I see described... YMMV. Don't let every program that wants to put itself in the startup group or in the systray and you should be fine. As for being more efficient: how much will my track count and/or amount of DSP processing improve if I move to 2000 or NT? I'm running okay with 96M of memory... I suspect its possible my performance might actually go down with NT.
I won't be silly and argue that NT or 2000 aren't more solid, but 98 has never been the nightmare I see described... YMMV. Don't let every program that wants to put itself in the startup group or in the systray and you should be fine. As for being more efficient: how much will my track count and/or amount of DSP processing improve if I move to 2000 or NT? I'm running okay with 96M of memory... I suspect its possible my performance might actually go down with NT.
hey pg dont get me wrong , my pc doesnt explode when i hit enter , but i just dont have confidence in it .. Its crashed before in the middle of a good session and weve lost some good work. But it just doesnt seem quick enough.. I have absolutely nothing running except systray and explorer .. the only programs installed are logic and cool edit , and im running 256MB ... but it still just doesnt want to jump up and run when i want to record while playing back ten tracks.. Am i expecting too much ?? or will a new operating system really make a big difference .... u never know pg , u might have that lucky machine !!! i wish i did .. u wanna sell it ???haahaa..
So does anyone else have problems with windows ?? well 95 + 98 anyway ??
maybe we should start a mob to go and attack microsoft headquarters so they might recognize the need for a dedicated audio recording platform!!!!! i spose thats just way over the top !!!
Anyway thanks all.....
cheers !
spider........
So does anyone else have problems with windows ?? well 95 + 98 anyway ??
maybe we should start a mob to go and attack microsoft headquarters so they might recognize the need for a dedicated audio recording platform!!!!! i spose thats just way over the top !!!
Anyway thanks all.....
cheers !
spider........
ola
Newbie
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spider:
So does anyone else have problems with windows ?? well 95 + 98 anyway ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good one Spider Of course we all have problems with Windows but as sonusman put it a while back (something like) "If i installed Linux, I'd have an OS that was rock solid but no applications to run on it". I know that it's painful to admit but without MS (or some other totally dominating company), only the hardcore computer "nerds" would have found the Internet and you would need one OS per application.
I suggest that you move to NT or W2000. They're far better than 95/98 and I would even consider W2000 to be a stable OS. I have been running it for something like ten months now and I have never had to restart it other than when *I* have screwed things up. It seems that 98 sort of get old after a while and keeps accumulating problems.
It would be really nice to have a dedicated "audio OS" and a rock solid application to go with it but I'm afraid that it won't happen. BeOS seemed to be the thing but they changed focus and it never turned out to be the saviour we were all waiting for.
/Ola
So does anyone else have problems with windows ?? well 95 + 98 anyway ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good one Spider
Of course we all have problems with Windows but as sonusman put it a while back (something like) "If i installed Linux, I'd have an OS that was rock solid but no applications to run on it". I know that it's painful to admit but without MS (or some other totally dominating company), only the hardcore computer "nerds" would have found the Internet and you would need one OS per application.I suggest that you move to NT or W2000. They're far better than 95/98 and I would even consider W2000 to be a stable OS. I have been running it for something like ten months now and I have never had to restart it other than when *I* have screwed things up. It seems that 98 sort of get old after a while and keeps accumulating problems.
It would be really nice to have a dedicated "audio OS" and a rock solid application to go with it but I'm afraid that it won't happen. BeOS seemed to be the thing but they changed focus and it never turned out to be the saviour we were all waiting for.
/Ola