So, Muttley...

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...do you get the Stew-Mac "Trade Secrets" emails?

In the most recent one Dan is talking about labor estimates, and how much time to plane. Now, Dan does good work, and on the whole I think Stew-Mac is a good company and serve an important function. However, has it ever taken you 6 hours to do a refret on an unbound fingerboard? Or 45 minutes to slot a nut? I have a feeling he was padding his estimate on the assumption that the people reading the article will mostly be younger/newer repair people who need to take their time in order to get it right. Still . . . 2 hours to locate and cut a saddle slot? If any of the folks in our shop took that long, we'd be a bit worried about their long term prospects in the shop.


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I subscribe to it yes but have to admit I haven't read it recently. As to how long to do stuff I always quote what I think and add a bit of thinking time. So a basic refret, 2 - 2 1/2 hours including check and basic setup. To cut nut slots, does that include shaping the nut? An hour, tops and that includes the check and basic set up. Saddle slots I wouldn't be much under his time if I had to jig and set as well. but with the many jigs I have it's about 20 minutes to cut the slot and whatever time might be required to fit a new saddle and/or undersaddle.

His figure for a refret is way over mine and I bet he does it in under half that but for those that are not used to doing repairs and setups on a regular basis I would expect it to take a lot longer..
 
i dont think those are entirely outrageous quotes...more or less

Six hours for a refret on an unbound fingerboard? Four hours at most, if you know what you're doing. Now, Dan (who does know what he is doing) insists on using that ridiculous neck jig of his, which is probably the issue on that one, but I've seen one of the guys in my shop do a complete refret in an hour and a half. Mind you, this guitar's fingerboard was in perfect shape (no truing needed), the fingerboard didn't chip out at all, and the guy doing the work has refreted thousands of guitars in his day; it was, in other words, an ideal situation and not something which can be done on a regular basis. But for an experienced repair person, six hours is beyond excessive. MAYBE if it was a bound fingerboard, or if you were using stainless steel fret wire, and certainly much more on a maple fingerboard which needs refinishing; but that wasn't the case here (it was an old J-45). And no, Dan isn't doing better work than our guys.

In fact, I'd be shocked if Dan actually takes six hours to refret a guitar. I have to imagine he is padding his estimates to what he thinks a new repair person (which is who the article is aimed at) would need to do the work right, but I think he may be doing them a disservice. Yes, when you are starting out you need to take the time to do the job right, but once you have the skills down you also need to learn to get things done in a timely and profitable fashion. If my guys are doing better fret work than you in half the time, you either won't be able to compete, or you will have to work for way less than a living wage. You have to be able to work fast to make a living - clean, precise, and careful, yes; but fast too.

(The importance of working clean is a big, and often overlooked part of that - newer folks in the shop never understand why I'm always telling them to clean their bench. I tell them to watch our shop manager work; he is constantly cleaning up his bench, but he gets his work done in much less time than anyone else in the shop. A clean bench leads to fast, accurate work. Now if I can only get my dad to try it, I might have a chance with everyone else in the shop!)

And two hours to locate and cut a saddle slot is insane - it's a half hour job, maybe 45 minutes if you run into some problems. Measure, mark (3 minutes - maybe); measure, mark (`nother minute or two): remeasure, remeasure (measure twice, cut one you know! - another minute); position and clamp the router jig (5-10 minutes, depending on how far off you are when you first put it down); cut (in passes, 5-10 minutes); Check your work (couple minutes at most); done. I get 28 minutes, which sounds about right. Now, maybe Dan is still using a Dremel tool for this, which would make things slower (we use a laminate trimmer, which is just a small router, but has MUCH better bearings and a more powerful motor than a Dremel), but I find it hard to believe that one of the worlds biggest tool nuts would be using the worst tool in the world for the job (and the Dremel is it, let me tell you!)


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I subscribe to it yes but have to admit I haven't read it recently. As to how long to do stuff I always quote what I think and add a bit of thinking time. So a basic refret, 2 - 2 1/2 hours including check and basic setup. To cut nut slots, does that include shaping the nut? An hour, tops and that includes the check and basic set up. Saddle slots I wouldn't be much under his time if I had to jig and set as well. but with the many jigs I have it's about 20 minutes to cut the slot and whatever time might be required to fit a new saddle and/or undersaddle.

His figure for a refret is way over mine and I bet he does it in under half that but for those that are not used to doing repairs and setups on a regular basis I would expect it to take a lot longer..



His whole list is breaks things down into very small bits, so cutting the saddle slot is completely separate from shaping the saddle, and making the nut is separate from slotting the nut, (and polishing the nut and saddle is given 20 minutes of it's own, which I suppose makes sense if you are doing it with micro mesh or something - I've got a buffing wheel just for that, so I might be spoiled by being able to take a nut from rough file marks to jeweler shinny in about 3 minutes).

And yes, I'm think he is making suggestions for new repair folks, not listing his actual repair times; but we got a big laugh out of it at the shop today.


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Yeah, I get those e-mails too, and while I'm not a veteran repairman - I was pretty surprised by those numbers as well.
 
Hey, question for you guys who do repair work.

Is it appropriate to tip a luthier? In the past, for small things where I tend to just pay cash because it's easier, I've gotten a couple bills in the $16 or thew $35 area and just given the luthier one or two twenties and told him not to worry about the change. I assume no one complains about a bit of extra money, but is this something I should be doing all the time, even on larger bills where I might throw it on a card or something?
 
Hey, question for you guys who do repair work.

Is it appropriate to tip a luthier? In the past, for small things where I tend to just pay cash because it's easier, I've gotten a couple bills in the $16 or thew $35 area and just given the luthier one or two twenties and told him not to worry about the change. I assume no one complains about a bit of extra money, but is this something I should be doing all the time, even on larger bills where I might throw it on a card or something?

A few guys I do work for will chuck in some beer money sometimes. Others will drop by at Christmas with a bottle of wine or scotch. It is by no means expected here and won't help you get a better service but it's appreciated. We don't have the same tipping culture here so thats one consideration. Here we tend to tip in better restaurants, barbers and cabs. That's about it really.
 
Is it appropriate to tip a luthier?


Appropriate? Yes, of course. But it is not expected, and we won't think less of you if you don't.


It is by no means expected here and won't help you get a better service but it's appreciated.


That's mostly true. It's not so much that tipping will get you better service, but certainly it is a friendly gesture, and we do tend to get things done a little faster for friends. One of our repair people has a regular customer who brings in a bottle of wine when he picks up his basses. Nothing extravagant, just some decent ($10-15) bottle. His basses tend to get done pretty quick. But there is more to it than the bottle of wine - he's also a very open, friendly, and expansive guy. He always seems happy when he comes in, and the attitude is contagious. We make fun of him, but we also like him a lot.

Another regular customer (whose been coming to the shop for as long as I can remember) doesn't tip in any way, but he tells some of the funniest jokes you've ever heard, and is a good friend. Again, his stuff gets done a bit faster than other peoples, and every now and then he gets a bit of a discount (but bare in mind that he is in at least two or three times a month getting something tweaked - it's an expensive discount!)

So, tipping is appreciated, but being a good, friendly, and interesting person - really, being a friend - is better. Pretty similar to most things in life, actually. We have a few customers who tip, but are assholes. There guitars sit in line just like anyone else. But if you're nice, tipping can help you stick out from the crowd.


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Just for the record, ALWAYS tip your electrician.

Hundred-dollar bills are really nice, and good Norwegian Wood is always appreciated.

:D
 
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