so i've been reading the threads regarding preamps...

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thebreathing

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...and it hasn't helped very much, actually it has made my decisions even harder by informing me of information that i was not aware of (i.e. - "starved plate" technology, lack of noticable difference in sound, bad reputations of certain models, etc.) my question is this- can i get an above average tube pre for around $300, give or take 50 bucks or so? i've been looking at bellari rp220 and rp503, groove tubes brick, presonus, and thanks to you guys the m-audio dmp3. what do you guys think of those and are there any others that i should consider and why? thanks alot, Jason

p.s. i know that there are alot different opinions on this subject but i don't have a place where i can go test them out very easily. i will be playing folk-rock, indie-rock, acoustic stuff and a little alt-country. thanks for all your wisdom.
 
thebreathing said:
...and it hasn't helped very much, actually it has made my decisions even harder by informing me of information that i was not aware of (i.e. - "starved plate" technology, lack of noticable difference in sound, bad reputations of certain models, etc.) my question is this- can i get an above average tube pre for around $300, give or take 50 bucks or so? i've been looking at bellari rp220 and rp503, groove tubes brick, presonus, and thanks to you guys the m-audio dmp3. what do you guys think of those and are there any others that i should consider and why? thanks alot, Jason

p.s. i know that there are alot different opinions on this subject but i don't have a place where i can go test them out very easily. i will be playing folk-rock, indie-rock, acoustic stuff and a little alt-country. thanks for all your wisdom.
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Howdy, neighbor (I see you're in NC). The cheapest of the real tube preamps (non-starved-plate) is the GT Brick. I have one and really like it, especially for vocals. I also have the DMP3 and feel it is very good when dual miking is needed (acoustic guitar). Either of those would be good options for a first pre. If the brick is too expensive, also consider the VTB-1. It's the best of the starved-plate tubes that I've come across.
 
thebreathing said:
my question is this- can i get an above average tube pre for around $300, give or take 50 bucks or so? i've been looking at bellari rp220 ...
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I actually like the 220 for certain things. It's a real tube pre, and it's cheap, but it's also useful, depending on the application. Loud rock or punk might be one of them. Not sure if I'd want to use it on anything delicate or demanding like classical guitar, piano, opera, jazz, etc. :D But it's a fun device that sounds cool if you overdrive it.
 
thebreathing said:
p.s. i know that there are alot different opinions on this subject but i don't have a place where i can go test them out very easily. i will be playing folk-rock, indie-rock, acoustic stuff and a little alt-country. thanks for all your wisdom.
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At least your indecision is far better informed than it was before, yes? ;)

So you're basically after a solid preamp for a number of vocal styles, guitars, keys, strings and more? Yeah, I can see how that won't be the easiest decision you'll ever make!

My only question is - does it have to be a tube thing? Why? Cos there's an awful lot of good pres and channel strips around that price range that would merit your attention. You should definitely consider the Focusrite Voicemaster Pro. And see what the TL Audio 5050 Mk2 runs for Stateside - because, although I'm not aware of the technology, that's a decent-sounding tube strip.

Carry on having fun, and remember not to regret your decision once you make it!
 
The GT BRICK would be good for your applications, and basically in your price range if you get a good deal on it.

I feel like you have come to one false assumption though, and I know this is based on some things that you have read here, because I've read the same posts. i.e.:

"lack of noticable difference in sound"

I couldn't disagree with this more. In fact, in my experience the exact opposite has proven to be true. At least when comparing preamps from different classes. In other words, when putting a budget preamp up against a high end preamp the difference is anything but subtle in my opinion. I've done the A/B tests myself and I don't understand how anyone could think a $99 preamp can compete with a $1,000 preamp on sonics, or even be close. Maybe blinky lights, but on sound: absolutely not. No doubt that is going to rub some people the wrong way, but I think it is misleading to say that there is not a noticable difference between preamps.

The way to go in my opinion is to get a channel or two of high quality preamps and then get a variety of mics to match with it. The money you put into getting a better preamp is money *very* well spent. Don't go below a GT BRICK, Grace 101, or RNP and you will be ahead of the game. Honorable mentions to the Rane MB-1b and Aphex 207. I don't know the Bellari gear so I can't comment on that. If you can get into the $500+ area per channel you will be even better off.

This said, I do agree that if you compare a $99 preamp to a $129 preamp you won't hear much difference. Comparisons within the same class are usually a wash. But between classes, there are substantial differences.
 
After many purchases and sales, I decided on the Brick for vocal/DI duties and the DMP2 pres in the M-Audio mixer thing for acoustic guitar and other stereo needs. The combo is working for me, though I need to work more with the Brick before I can really discuss it in depth.

But my thinking here is, the Brick has gotten almost universally good reviews and is a solid piece that should last years ... without me outgrowing it. The DMP3 at roughly 80 bucks a channel generally can't be beat for a usable cleanish pre. So for me, the preamp quest is done!
 
noisedude said:
At least your indecision is far better informed than it was before, yes? ;)

My only question is - does it have to be a tube thing? Why? Cos there's an awful lot of good pres and channel strips around that price range that would merit your attention.
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well, i have found that the pre amps on my fire pod do a pretty good job for micing electric instruments and drums, but when it comes to my voice i need something that will add some presence to it and give it a little warmth so it seems like i just need a tube pre, i already have a few mics and i don't feel like forking over another wad of cash for a tube mic would be worth it. i know there are alot of good pre amps that aren't tubes in that price range but i don't think it would make that much of a difference in the areas i need it to.
 
SonicAlbert said:
The GT BRICK would be good for your applications, and basically in your price range if you get a good deal on it.

I feel like you have come to one false assumption though, and I know this is based on some things that you have read here, because I've read the same posts. i.e.:

"lack of noticable difference in sound"

I couldn't disagree with this more. In fact, in my experience the exact opposite has proven to be true. At least when comparing preamps from different classes. In other words, when putting a budget preamp up against a high end preamp the difference is anything but subtle in my opinion. I've done the A/B tests myself and I don't understand how anyone could think a $99 preamp can compete with a $1,000 preamp on sonics, or even be close. Maybe blinky lights, but on sound: absolutely not. No doubt that is going to rub some people the wrong way, but I think it is misleading to say that there is not a noticable difference between preamps.
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sorry, i should have clarified that statement, i meant that there wasn't much difference in the sound of the tube pres in the 300 dollar and under price range. i know that they all color the sound a little but its not as noticable as the big money pre's . beleive me i have heard a neve and can tell the difference! sorry to mislead you, and thanks for the info, i think its gonna be the gt brick. it sure ain't the prettiest of the bunch but all that matters is the sound.
 
also i should have said before, this is going to be mainly just for my vocals. maybe acoustic guitar. cool.
 
I am interested in the Firepod.

I am interested in the Firepod. Can you tell me how you like it overall? I have heard good things, but I have also hear that you cannot route inputs directly to outputs. Would this inhibit me from using an outboard effects unit while tracking? Can you tell me what other limitations it has?

Thanks

Jeff



thebreathing said:
well, i have found that the pre amps on my fire pod do a pretty good job for micing electric instruments and drums, but when it comes to my voice i need something that will add some presence to it and give it a little warmth so it seems like i just need a tube pre, i already have a few mics and i don't feel like forking over another wad of cash for a tube mic would be worth it. i know there are alot of good pre amps that aren't tubes in that price range but i don't think it would make that much of a difference in the areas i need it to.
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Hmmm ... ok. But don't equate tubes with warmth 100% - there are lots of solid-state units that'd do your job nicely. The Brick looks like a safe bet - it's a lot more expensive over here so it's not been one I've really looked at yet.
 
jeff0633 said:
I am interested in the Firepod. Can you tell me how you like it overall? I have heard good things, but I have also hear that you cannot route inputs directly to outputs. Would this inhibit me from using an outboard effects unit while tracking? Can you tell me what other limitations it has?

Thanks

Jeff
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i haven't needed to use any outboard effects nor have i tried to route the inputs directly to the outputs so i'm not sure about that. over all i LOVE it, i am running it with logic pro so that is covering all of my effects needs, i'll try to look it up in the manual and get back to you on it. it is an awesome unit though, and so far i haven't come across any limitations or anything bad at all. i would recomend it to ANYONE over pro tools or the tascam firewire interfaces. i have even heard some devoted motu fans say that they liked it better.
 
thebreathing said:
sorry, i should have clarified that statement, i meant that there wasn't much difference in the sound of the tube pres in the 300 dollar and under price range. i know that they all color the sound a little but its not as noticable as the big money pre's . beleive me i have heard a neve and can tell the difference! sorry to mislead you, and thanks for the info, i think its gonna be the gt brick. it sure ain't the prettiest of the bunch but all that matters is the sound.
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It may not be the prettiest, but you could drop it and not have to worry in the slightest. The BRICK and DITTO are just so solidly made.

Interestingly enough, some of the high end tube gear actually colors the sound *less*. I mean, any gear colors the sound. But the sound that is so often associated with tube gear is not necessarily how they all sound, as I'm sure you know. Some tube gear is built to be clean, and some is built to add flavor.
 
noisedude said:
Hmmm ... ok. But don't equate tubes with warmth 100% - there are lots of solid-state units that'd do your job nicely. The Brick looks like a safe bet - it's a lot more expensive over here so it's not been one I've really looked at yet.
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thats kinda what i have been assuming, what kind of solid state units are you talking about. i am fairly educated in terms of home recording but not really in the processing department, i mostly use plugins but have been finding that the sound i want can only be found in analog units, so all of this is kinda new to me. any info you can give me would be great, thanks so much. Jason
 
yo,

I have a RP220 and a Blue Tube.

The RP220 is phat. i really like it. the blue tube is dirty. I also really like it. digital is harsh. me no like so much. tubes make digital approximations less annoying, like beer. I use the bellari for clean stuff. vocals. kick and snare. overheads. Then I use the blue tube for the dirty stuff. bass, guitars, vocals, overheads. Different tones for different stuff. makes a more interesting end product. i have not tried the other products mentioned.
 
FALKEN said:
digital is harsh. me no like so much. tubes make digital approximations less annoying, like beer.
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I think the harsh digital sound you are talking about is the sound of the converters, not necessarily the sound of digital. I've noticed that better converters sound a lot warmer and more "analog" than cheap converters. I used to think that digital sounded harsh or cold, but in recent years converters have gotten a lot better. What converters are you using?
 
FALKEN said:
digital is harsh. me no like so much.
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Then you haven't heard good-quality digital.

IF you've got bad-sounding speakers, the solution is NOT to EQ the crap out of them trying to make them sound better - you get good-quality speakers.

Same thing with preamps/digital converters -- if you've got poor quality, harsh-sounding converters, then you don't buy crappy, muddy pres to pretend you need to "warm the digital harshness" -- the solution is to use proper converters.

OTOH - and I'm not saying it applies to you - but a large percentage of the time, the blame home-recordists place on the gear for bad sound has far less to do with gear quality than recording technique and the environment that the sounds are being recorded in...

An AKG C12 through a Massenburg pre won't help someone to get a better sound through the same crappy converters they've always used, nor will it help if whatever they're trying to capture is being recorded in a bad room!
 
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another person from greensboro! wow...anyways. blue bear is right....recording technique will help compensate with crappy equipment.
 
distortedrumble said:
"check out these kicks i got from walmart dawg! they was on sale for $15.97! i'm goin to da club tonight, no doubt"
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***points gun at DR*** "Give me those f'ing shoes before I bust a cap in your ass!!!"
 
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