Snare Mixing Question

L

laststartoshine

New member
So, we spent a good deal of time micing everything...and got what we figured were the best tones out of everything. now, sadly, once we added guitars, the snare is sounding really papery and thin, it's just not cutting through at all.

What would you do to thicken up the sound a bit? i've tried a bunch of different things, none of it seems to be helping...

any suggestions?
 
What mic are you using?
How is the mic positioned?
How is the snare tuned?

More info will result in a better answer. :rolleyes:
 
laststartoshine said:
So, we spent a good deal of time micing everything...and got what we figured were the best tones out of everything. now, sadly, once we added guitars, the snare is sounding really papery and thin, it's just not cutting through at all.

What would you do to thicken up the sound a bit? i've tried a bunch of different things, none of it seems to be helping...

any suggestions?
Click to expand...


EQ, Reverb, use the sound to trigger a sample? :confused:
 
laststartoshine said:
any suggestions?
Click to expand...

is everything in phase? do you have any comb filtering going on?

if so, and assuming that the drums were recorded in a decent room and your monitors aren't lying to you......then a healthy dose of compression, eq and multiple bussing are your friends. recording and mixing (especially drums) are skills which are honed over time--there's no magic bullet.


cheers,
wade
 
Also check how the snare's tuned, etc. When I'm playing drums without other music I can do whatever I want with the snare, but I get a much ballsier sound with guitars when I tighten it up all the way, take off the mute, and loosen up the snares a bit.
 
All these are good suggestions for improving an already decent sound. But they're all band-aids as far as working with a not good sound. The main thing is knowing what you're using for a mic, how your drum is tuned, the position of your snare mic and overheads, etc....

Seriously, the snare should sound decent and cut through before all the double-micing, compressing, turning up-side-down, standing-on-your-head, sprinkling-with-angel-piss and everything else. You shouldn't HAVE to do any of that to save it. There's got to be a reason why it doesn't sound good before all that shit. Learn how to tune the drum, experiment with mic placement, hit the drum properly.....THEN, you can worry about all the tricks that will make even better.
 
RAMI said:
All these are good suggestions for improving an already decent sound. But they're all band-aids as far as working with a not good sound. The main thing is knowing what you're using for a mic, how your drum is tuned, the position of your snare mic and overheads, etc....

Seriously, the snare should sound decent and cut through before all the double-micing, compressing, turning up-side-down, standing-on-your-head, sprinkling-with-angel-piss and everything else. You shouldn't HAVE to do any of that to save it. There's got to be a reason why it doesn't sound good before all that shit. Learn how to tune the drum, experiment with mic placement, hit the drum properly.....THEN, you can worry about all the tricks that will make even better.
Click to expand...

That's what I've asked, but to no avail......it's hard to help someone when you don't know the problem!
 
jaykeMURD said:
That's what I've asked, but to no avail......it's hard to help someone when you don't know the problem!
Click to expand...

Read my post above. Or here:

zacanger said:
Also check how the snare's tuned, etc. When I'm playing drums without other music I can do whatever I want with the snare, but I get a much ballsier sound with guitars when I tighten it up all the way, take off the mute, and loosen up the snares a bit.
Click to expand...
 
If your snare sounds too ringy, leave it. The ring will get lost in the mix once the other bits are shoved in, and leave a phat sound. If you record a dead sound then it will sound quiet and muffled in the mix.
 
laststartoshine said:
So, we spent a good deal of time micing everything...and got what we figured were the best tones out of everything. now, sadly, once we added guitars, the snare is sounding really papery and thin, it's just not cutting through at all.

What would you do to thicken up the sound a bit? i've tried a bunch of different things, none of it seems to be helping...

any suggestions?
Click to expand...

It really seems like a phase cancellation problem from the description. If everything is in phase... try a little EQ at 200 and 5k for more body and presence. The papery sound is usually around 500 and you can dodge that out a bit too.
 
sorry for taking forever to respond, i'm definately not a newbie. and when i say papery and thin, i mean...it doesn't sound terrible, it doesn't sound as good as it SHOULD. not to sound cocky, but we made sure everything sounded good before tracking....we spent good deal of time tuning...mic placement, the works.


like i said earlier, this isn't a tuning/mic issue. it's just not sitting well in the mix now that we've added guitars


i will try messing around with a few of your suggestions later on this evening...

thanks for the help =)
 
laststartoshine said:
this isn't a tuning/mic issue. it's just not sitting well in the mix now that we've added guitars
Click to expand...

Now, I'm nowhere NEAR as experienced as some of the guys on here - no hiding that fact. I know I'm only 17 and probably 'spouting bullshit' in the eyes of most users, but if the drum is tuned and miked right, and the guitar amp is EQ'd and miked right, they will sit perfectly in the mix without needing EQ post-recording. A little phase cancellation should be all that's needed - if you spent as much time as you say you did getting the right sound from the kit and the guitars in the frist place.
 
laststartoshine said:
not to sound cocky, but we made sure everything sounded good before tracking....we spent good deal of time tuning...mic placement, the works.
Click to expand...

Two Scenarios:

A. how does it sound when you solo just the snare on the recording? does it sound like it did when you recorded it?

If YES, then see B below.

If NOT, then it was a tuning/mic/placement/drummer issue.


B. if the snare, when solo'd, sounds it sounds like it did when you recorded it, does the sound thin out when you add in the rest of the drums (kick, overheads, etc)?

if so, then you have a problem with comb filtering and phase cancellation.


cheers,
wade
 
it must be a phase issue. cuz it sounds just like i did when i solo it...thick and rich, but when i add everything else in. it sounds thin.


can i fix this without re-recording?

and how do i stop this from happening next time
 
laststartoshine said:
it must be a phase issue. cuz it sounds just like i did when i solo it...thick and rich, but when i add everything else in. it sounds thin.


can i fix this without re-recording?

and how do i stop this from happening next time
Click to expand...
It depends on what is cancelling it out. Solo the snare. Then, one by one, add the other tracks (starting with the drum tracks) and see when the snare sound changes. Sometimes it's just one of the tom mics or the overheads, in that case just nudge that track so it is in time with the snare track.
 
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