Snare Envy

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ggunn

Crystal Flavolian
OK, I am making better and better recordings and mixes each time, and now the weak link is The Snare. Now, in every piece of music I listen to all I hear is the snare and how great (sharp, deep, textured, etc.) it is compared to what I am getting. Am I overstating it by saying that I think that the snare is the most important single instrument in the kit and maybe in the entire band when it comes to capturing the attention of the listener?

I am doing things pretty simply and on a restricted budget, same as a lot of you guys. I am presently micing the snare with 2 SM57's (top just above the rim pointed at the center of the head, and bottom about 6 inches below the center of the lower head. In the mix, I EQ to taste with the channel strip EQ and insert a little gated reverb.

It doesn't sound bad, exactly, but it just doesn't pop in the mix, and there's only this tiny little bit of play between the snare being inaudible and being too loud. Ya know what I mean?

I am willing to listen to any and all suggestions, and I will try anything that doesn't involve my having to go out and buy a bunch of expensive gear.

Cheers,
 
Snare

Of course an audio sample would help greatly in knowing what's wrong with it, but most likely your problem has to do with compression. THat is, you either haven't compressed the snare or you're doing it wrong.

A snare track should be compressed with a really low attack. I almost always use the lowest setting my compressor can handle, depending on the compressor. Then a ratio of about 2:1 - 6:1 (3:1 average) should do the trick depending on your style (10:1 to really make it explode :p ). Then the release would be about 100-200 ms... Of course all of that depends on the snare. A light, fast, tight snare would need heavier ratio as well as a shorter release.

In the EQ-ing department you should watch the bottom of the snare. A heavy snare sound comes from punching up around 150-400 Hz. Of course subtle. Don't destroy.

Hope that helps!
 
not to over simplify here, but could it possible be your tuning skills?......how much have you experimented with different heads, different tunings, different rooms?
 
ggunn said:
OK, I am making better and better recordings and mixes each time, and now the weak link is The Snare. Now, in every piece of music I listen to all I hear is the snare and how great (sharp, deep, textured, etc.) it is compared to what I am getting. Am I overstating it by saying that I think that the snare is the most important single instrument in the kit and maybe in the entire band when it comes to capturing the attention of the listener?

I am doing things pretty simply and on a restricted budget, same as a lot of you guys. I am presently micing the snare with 2 SM57's (top just above the rim pointed at the center of the head, and bottom about 6 inches below the center of the lower head. In the mix, I EQ to taste with the channel strip EQ and insert a little gated reverb.

It doesn't sound bad, exactly, but it just doesn't pop in the mix, and there's only this tiny little bit of play between the snare being inaudible and being too loud. Ya know what I mean?

I am willing to listen to any and all suggestions, and I will try anything that doesn't involve my having to go out and buy a bunch of expensive gear.

Cheers,
Click to expand...


IS the bottom mic's phase reversal flipped? If not, you are cancelling out some of the top mic's frequencies. Personally, I have no use for a 57 under the snare - if you're going to mic the snare from beneath to add snap to the top - that's a condensor's job, bot a dynamic mic.


What other mic's do you have that you could use for the snare. I hate SM57's, they sound dull and muddy to me. The BEst snare mic I've found is the Beyer #M422; it was part of the group of drum mic's that Phil Collins used to promote all the time. Other than that, I like the ATM pro25, which is a hypercardioid mc designed for kick drums, but it makes an incredible snare mic.


Also, how much are you gating, compressing, etc? all of that plays into the snare sound - but to me, your #1 faux pas is using the 57. Yes, I do actually own one SM57 - and I've used it as a hammer to drive nails into drumrisers all across the great state of Florida.



Tim
 
Something you can try is to copy the snare track,..compress it heavily,..I mean really heavy,.. gate it heavily,..and mix it in with your original snare tracks. I've tried this method and it really worked to bring the snare out of the mix.

Take 'er easy,..
Calwood
 
What about your overheads? Where are they? What are they? I'd also love to hear an audio sample to compare your drums to mine. I also have noticed that my snare doesn't really have that pop that other recordings do, but personally I know what my problem is. My snare head is a few years old... cring... but I make do with the budget I have.

I also tend to agree with your statement about the snare being so important. Thinking of my favorite band (Dream Theater) I definitely picture the snare popping out in the mix and really giving the music its drive.
 
Tim Brown said:
IS the bottom mic's phase reversal flipped?
Click to expand...

Thats a big one! I used to do that even though people were telling me about phase issues, I didn't understand it so I ignored it. As for the bottem 57, I have used a bottem mic before, but I usually end up only using it for the nice reverb aftertone it gets me, not for the actuall crack. If I were you, I would probably not add reverb to the top snare and only add it to the bottem (of course this depends on the type of music), but that is just something weird I sometimes do. A cut at 400-630 Hz might suit you well on the bottom. Also a cut at 2.5K, and small boost from around 160-250 Hz. What works best for my snare is a boost from around 3.1K to 6.3K and a boost from about 100 Hz to about 200 Hz or 250Hz when needed. I usually roll off under 80 Hz. These EQs fit me well but may not suit you at all.

I do agree with you that one of the most, if not the most important feature of modern day recordings is the snare, but don't let that fool you by thinking the most important part is how loud the snare is. Get a good sound before sacrificing it for volume, you can always add a gain later... with proper software, and if you can get a good solo sound but can't at all bring it up in the mix, then bring the mix down around it. Volume does not equal good, plus you can also add a gain in mastering, If you plan on mastering yourself. If you are still having problems then there is obviously a more serious isue at hand. It would help us if you could put up a clip of your sound. Sometimes you think you sound worse than you do!

Good luck,

Ben
 
emergencyexit said:
I do agree with you that one of the most, if not the most important feature of modern day recordings is the snare, but don't let that fool you by thinking the most important part is how loud the snare is.
Click to expand...

I agree completely; as a matter of fact, getting the snare to be big in the mix but not by means of volume is precisely what I am going for. It's not that what I have sounds bad, exactly; it's just that when I get the snare as prominent as I think it needs to be in the mix, it's too loud.

I used a pair of SP B-1's overhead, 57's above and below the snare, and a Beta 52A on the kick. I've got a nice stereo spread on the OH's, and the kick is OK, though a little boomy (I've got some ideas about that for the next round).

Thanks for your responses, guys.
 
My drummer just got a new snare - paid $300 or $400 for it. Maple snare - deep. Sounds fucking GREAT. it's such a big difference from what he was playing (the snare that came with his Pearl set - nice set too).

Todd
 
Judging from your question and what I really feel that you want is a big thumping snare sound and it sounds like a compressing problem. What level would you say your compression skills are at?
 
If the overheads point down, the tom mics point down, the snare mic points down... the bottom snare points up. :cool: reverse it.
 
Well, you might reconsider. Some people say that it sounds better to flip the polarity of mics that face away from the impact in order to have the top of the wave hit the speakers first. It is pretty subtle, but I do it now. Overheads can go either way with me depending on the particular setup, but I flip the phase on the top snare and tom mics almost all the time. I leave the kick mic and bottom snare mic (if it is there) at normal polarity because they are facing "into" the impact.
 
I think it all depends really on what you're getting out of your mics. Reverse the phase and listen to the difference it makes... of course make sure you're not soloing that track while you do it or you won't hear a damn thing change. :P

I think the bottom line though is that the top and bottom snare mics should be opposite phase from one another, just like if you use two tom mics.
 
Reggie said:
Well, you might reconsider. Some people say that it sounds better to flip the polarity of mics that face away from the impact in order to have the top of the wave hit the speakers first. It is pretty subtle, but I do it now. Overheads can go either way with me depending on the particular setup, but I flip the phase on the top snare and tom mics almost all the time. I leave the kick mic and bottom snare mic (if it is there) at normal polarity because they are facing "into" the impact.
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I would actually say it makes a noticable difference.

SonicClang said:
I think it all depends really on what you're getting out of your mics.
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Actually, no. It really depends on physics. Doing it your way "sucks" - literally. You want the speaker cone to travel forward first, creating a punch. If it travels backwards first, the initial pulse is insted an initial suck. I don't explain that as good as I should, but it's been a long day. Look at commercial "pro" cd's - you'll see what I mean.
 
NL5 said:
IActually, no. It really depends on physics. Doing it your way "sucks" - literally. You want the speaker cone to travel forward first, creating a punch. If it travels backwards first, the initial pulse is insted an initial suck. I don't explain that as good as I should, but it's been a long day. Look at commercial "pro" cd's - you'll see what I mean.
Click to expand...

The "suck" is the natural waveform the drum creates though.
Think about it... you are usually ABOVE the snare drum. You hit the snare drum and the first thing the skin does is travel DOWN with the stick - creating negative pressure.
 
bleyrad said:
The "suck" is the natural waveform the drum creates though.
Think about it... you are usually ABOVE the snare drum. You hit the snare drum and the first thing the skin does is travel DOWN with the stick - creating negative pressure.
Click to expand...

The initial sound though is coming from the bottom head.
 
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