Snare Drum Tone Questions

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stevieb

Just another guy, really.
I'm not a drummer. Okay, that's out of the way...

What's the deal with brass? I own a COB 60's Slingerland snare, but I can't hear much diff between it and the cheap Percussion Plus snare I also have.

Piccolo snares are what, compared to standard size snares? Louder? Sharper? Higher pitched? what?

How 'bout wood? In general, I mean. How does wood differ from brass or metal in tone, overall?

Why aren't other drums made of metal as often as snares?

Why are marching snares deeper than most "kit" snares? How do they sound, compared?

I've also seen kit snares that were shallower than most- what's that all about?

Feel free to expound on snare drums and snare tone, in general. Educate me.

Thanks.
 
stevieb said:
What's the deal with brass? I own a COB 60's Slingerland snare, but I can't hear much diff between it and the cheap Percussion Plus snare I also have.
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You likely wont hear a difference by ear; most drum shells are made by the
same company and only differ by hardware, brand and shell finishes.

Much of the sound you get will be dictated by the type of skins and the tuning.

Piccolo snares are what, compared to standard size snares? Louder? Sharper? Higher pitched? what?
Click to expand...

All of the above in general. Small diameter drums are higher pitched.

How 'bout wood? In general, I mean. How does wood differ from brass or metal in tone, overall?
Click to expand...

Wood is a warmer sound, and absorbs some of the overtones as well.
Thicker wood shells also have a lower resonant point so you'll get more
bottom tone to the sound.

Why aren't other drums made of metal as often as snares?
Click to expand...

Good question! The thinner metal shells would not resonate well, and therefore
would produce weak sounding toms and kicks.

Why are marching snares deeper than most "kit" snares? How do they sound, compared?
Click to expand...

Marching snares are a different breed altogether. They are tuned very tight
compared to most rock, jazz, funk "kit" snares. The deeper shells help with
sustain, and prevent the batter and reso skins from cancelling their sound waves.

They are much louder and cut through horns (brass) sections very well due
to their design.

I've also seen kit snares that were shallower than most- what's that all about?
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Distinct sounds I would imagine. Diameter, shell thickness, depth, skin type
and tuning all make the drum sound unique.
 
stevieb said:
What's the deal with brass? I own a COB 60's Slingerland snare, but I can't hear much diff between it and the cheap Percussion Plus snare I also have.
Click to expand...
Brass, in general, will have a deeper 'thunk' than most other metal shells. It will also resonate at a different pitch. But of course, you can tune the drum to the point where you will lose the effect. This is what I suspect is happening with your two snares. You might also be listening for the wrong thing.

While most of the shells now are made by only a couple of companies, Slingerland was making it's own shells in the 60's.

stevieb said:
Piccolo snares are what, compared to standard size snares? Louder? Sharper? Higher pitched? what?
Click to expand...
Piccolo's are very shallow and are normally Tuned higher. They normally have a piercing bark to them.

stevieb said:
How 'bout wood? In general, I mean. How does wood differ from brass or metal in tone, overall?
Click to expand...
It depends on what wood, what size and what thickness. Thick wood shells will have a higher resonance and will give you more of the head sound. There are so many other variables that it is hard to discern a specific difference between wood and metal shells. Some metal shells have a warm tone, some wood shells do not and vise versa.

stevieb said:
Why aren't other drums made of metal as often as snares?
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Some companies do, like Trick Drums. They are horribly expensive and tend not to sound as good imho. The snare is a different kind of instrument than a kick or a tom, it serves a different purpose so naturally it would be designed differently.

stevieb said:
Why are marching snares deeper than most "kit" snares? How do they sound, compared?
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They are tuned incredibly high and are meant to be heard from 100 yards away. Look on youtube for videos of marching bands and listen to the snares. That's what they sound like.

stevieb said:
I've also seen kit snares that were shallower than most- what's that all about?
Click to expand...
Those would be piccolo snares, see above.
 
What the hell are you talking about 2kick?

There's a bunch of shell manufacturers!
Ever heard of Trick drums? All aluminum.... sound kikkass too!
Tempus ... Fiberglass
Dunnett ... Ti shells
Unix ... stave constuction

Maybe you heard of Keller?

Heads and tuning are only a factor in the overall sound.

Thicker shells or denser material will produce a higher fundamental pitch of the shell itself.
Some sound characteristics may be very subtle from one drum to another though. It all depends.

http://ghostnote.net/vbforum/ if you're so inclined to learn more on drum making....
 
crankz1 said:
What the hell are you talking about 2kick?

There's a bunch of shell manufacturers!
Ever heard of Trick drums? All aluminum.... sound kikkass too!
Tempus ... Fiberglass
Dunnett ... Ti shells
Unix ... stave constuction

Maybe you heard of Keller?
Click to expand...

I sure have heard of Keller. You should re-read my post. All of it... and
understand it.

Who is the biggest supplier of wood shells to drum companies?

What do most drum kits (toms and kicks) use as shell material as their
main product line option?


Heads and tuning are only a factor in the overall sound.
Click to expand...

Tell me something I don't know.

"Much of the sound you get will be dictated by the type of skins and the tuning."

What is the operative word in the above sentence?

Diameter, shell thickness, depth, skin type and tuning all make the drum sound unique.

Thicker shells or denser material will produce a higher fundamental pitch of the shell itself.
Click to expand...

True. Now put that in the context of the question asked between Brass
and Wood:

"I mean. How does wood differ from brass or metal in tone, overall? "

A thicker wood shell will produce a lower tone than a more reflective, thinner
brass shell.

Are you going to tell me the same dimension of brass shell with same skin
and same tuning will give a lower tone, with less harmonics than a wood
shell?

Some sound characteristics may be very subtle from one drum to another though. It all depends.
Click to expand...

You pretty much nailed it there, and you also contradicted most of your post
with this line alone.

Take a Pearl Export, maple shell tom with a Remo pinstripe batter,
and a Remo Ambassador reso head tuned to the same pitch as a Tama
Rockstar of the same dimensions.

Are you going to hear a difference by ear? :rolleyes:

Maybe I was right about the shell finish and hardware being the most
obvious difference huh?

http://ghostnote.net/vbforum/ if you're so inclined to learn more on drum making....
Click to expand...

No thanks; been there, done that in all my years of playing.
 
Wow, you're still clueless after all those years eh? :rolleyes:
No point debating with you!
 
That's right, there's no need to debate. I just clarified every line of my post
and it was 100% correct to begin with.

Not really sure why you jumped all over my post to start, but I'll forgive you.
 
This is dumb.

The heads and how you tune the drum affect the sound more than the shell material does. Of course different woods and metals have their own characteristics, but they are easily overidden with heads and tuning. I can tune my Supraphonic to an ear splitting crack and you'd swear it was a 20 ply birch. My thin maple snare will ring and ping just like a brass. I really, really doubt anyone can listen to recorded drums and tell what they're made of. They probably can't in person either. The heads, shell size and depth, and tuning make the difference. The shell depth also has a lot to do with how snappy a snare can be. A 5 inch snare is gonna be a lot more responsive than an 8 inch deep Vinnie Paul piece of crap. But those thinner snares lack the body of a deeper snare, so it's a trade-off. You just gotta decide for yourself. Don't get too caught up in shell material. Maple, Birch, Oak, Mahogany, Aluminum, Basswood, Brass, Acrylic, Copper, Steel, whatever....it will all sound good with the right heads and good tuning. It will all sound like total shit too with the wrong heads and bad tuning.
 
I'm sorry .... The first part of my post was really the only thing that was directed at you 2kick.
There are many shell manufactures ....
Pearl
Tama
Sonor
Yamaha
etc... Don't use Kellers. They layup their own ply shells.

I don't mean to be a dikk ... just cranky from being on midnights. :mad:

Greg, tune low (like some players do at times) and I bet your drums sing differently.
 
crankz1 said:
Greg, tune low (like some players do at times) and I bet your drums sing differently.
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Dude, I have no problem with how my drums sing. I don't want them to sing differently. I tune them how they want to be tuned. That's why they sound so awesome. :)
 
lol .... I hope you know what I meant.
I was talking about bringing out those subtle differences to be used.
I don't always want the same thwack from all my snares....
 
crankz1 said:
lol .... I hope you know what I meant.
I was talking about bringing out those subtle differences to be used.
I don't always want the same thwack from all my snares....
Click to expand...

I have 4 snares now. They all sound different. Although, the Supraphonic clearly kills the other three.
 
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