snare crap

T

theD1CKENS

*insert clever title here
I'm sure there's more than a few threads, but I kinda wanted a consolidated(and more recently updated) reference.

It's my first time tracking drums, and it's a PITA!!! there's so much going on. I think I'll learn plenty on my own messing with the rest of the kit, but the SNARE is killing me.

due to the space between the snare/hat/1st tom(to some degree), I'm getting a lot of bleed in the snare mic. so much, in fact, it's unusable. I've experimented with mic placement, gating, and expanders, and I'm stumped.

I'm limited on places I can put the mic(sm57 knockoff). if the cable isn't resting on the hat, the mic is in the line of fire, or the stand is in the way, or the null points are all kinds of useless or...whatever. I'm limited there.

as far as gating or expanding, it sounds like crap. maybe I'm just not using them right, but the hat is still there during the attack of the snare, even if only for a split second, and it gives the hat a kind of accent on every snare hit. also not pretty.

since sampling the snare isn't an option, I'll probably just rent a woodchipper and go all Fargo on the drums
 
i feel like bleed isnt a huge deal, most of the time. I agree about gating, I dont think its very helpful. When recording drums i had a similar problem on the kick and an enveloper helped bring out the kick. perhaps the same would work for snare. Why isnt sampling an option, cant you sample your own snare drum for a realistic sound and then use some sort of audio to midi device on the snare?
 
can't(won't) sample the snare cuz it takes FOREVER! there's no point and click on my recorder. using a 'studio-in-a-box' KorgD3200. it takes too long for my tastes, and if it gets tracked well, I don't have to deal with it
 
theD1CKENS said:
:o

yup...what're some options for isolating the snare?
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It's all in mic positioning. This is recording, so you do what you have to do. Maybe move the hats higher or farther out. And this is crazy, but I've done it and it works: take a dixie cup, cut a hole in the bottom, slip it over your snare mic, and fill it with auralex foam. Make a little hat for it. Still, it's all in positioning. And, you might be relying on the close mic a little too much. Try to get better kit representation from the overheads so you don't lean on the close mic track so much.
 
Greg_L said:
And this is crazy, but I've done it and it works: take a dixie cup, cut a hole in the bottom, slip it over your snare mic, and fill it with auralex foam. Make a little hat for it.
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w...t...f?!

that's brilliant! did it change your snare sound at all? seems like it wouldn't, but ya never know
 
theD1CKENS said:
w...t...f?!

that's brilliant! did it change your snare sound at all? seems like it wouldn't, but ya never know
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Not really. I couldn't get the mic where I normally like it though cuz the cup was in the way, but it did cut down on the overall bleed a little.

I only used it a few times. I don't even bother anymore, but you can try it. The main problem was packing it with the foam tight enough so it wouldn't fall out while keeping it even with the end of the mic.
 
Maybe you don't want to spend money, or as little as possible. But I may still suggest a different mic. Try a super cardiod like the Beta 57A, or a Beta 56. Try borrowing or renting. There's much better, and much more expensive, but try the 56 or 57A first. The Beta 56 is maybe $160, but then there's the Sennheiser MD431. Much better, but about $450 for the MkII model. :(
 
I meant the dickens, but oh well. Yeah greg I use a similar position. I point the diaphragm across the head of the snare just above the rim, angled down just a little bit.
fig5.jpg
 
mine is set up about 1 1/2"-2" above the rim, pointed halfway between the rim and center...but as it turns out, the hat is just way too loud. I'm probably gonna have to find a different hat or muffle the crap out of the one we have.
 
theD1CKENS said:
mine is set up about 1 1/2"-2" above the rim, pointed halfway between the rim and center...but as it turns out, the hat is just way too loud. I'm probably gonna have to find a different hat or muffle the crap out of the one we have.
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Good luck muffling a hi-hat. How the hell would you even do that? Move the hats, move the mic, or tell the drummer to stop beating the shit out of the hats and/or hit the snare harder.
 
Greg_L said:
Good luck muffling a hi-hat. How the hell would you even do that? Move the hats, move the mic, or tell the drummer to stop beating the shit out of the hats and/or hit the snare harder.
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he says he can't move it cuz it'll "mess him up". whatever. the cup trick helped a good bit, and I moved the mic to the outside of the hat and still managed to keep it out of his way.

BUT...

on closer inspection, the room mic picked up too much hat, also. he said he could back off a bit, and I've got a few ideas to muffle it. maybe some tape inside the bell, or on the bottom hat. anything for a quick fix, but eventually, he'll HAVE to get a new one. damn thing isn't even made of brass or whatever real cymbals are made of! it's some entry level Meinl. shame, cuz it sounds pretty awesome closed
 
theD1CKENS said:
he says he can't move it cuz it'll "mess him up". whatever. the cup trick helped a good bit, and I moved the mic to the outside of the hat and still managed to keep it out of his way.

BUT...

on closer inspection, the room mic picked up too much hat, also. he said he could back off a bit, and I've got a few ideas to muffle it. maybe some tape inside the bell, or on the bottom hat. anything for a quick fix, but eventually, he'll HAVE to get a new one. damn thing isn't even made of brass or whatever real cymbals are made of! it's some entry level Meinl. shame, cuz it sounds pretty awesome closed
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I say this all the time: ditch the room mic unless your room sounds really, really good. I'd bet that 99% of the time in a home recording project, a room mic does more harm than good.
 
it's all just practice right now. I'm seeing what I can do with only three mics til I can get to a music store and get my hands on some actual drum mics. so far, bass, snare and room mics sound (mostly) promising...for some other style of music

I have my eye on this Pyle Pro 7. never heard of them, but if it sucks, I'm only out like $115. surely, at least ONE of the seven mics will be okay
 
theD1CKENS said:
it's all just practice right now. I'm seeing what I can do with only three mics til I can get to a music store and get my hands on some actual drum mics. so far, bass, snare and room mics sound (mostly) promising...for some other style of music

I have my eye on this Pyle Pro 7. never heard of them, but if it sucks, I'm only out like $115. surely, at least ONE of the seven mics will be okay
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If you don't mind spending a bit more, the Samson 8kit is absolutely fantastic.
 
new mic are on the back burner ATM. I broke the hats and had to drop a good chunk o' change on some new ones. HHX something or other....infinitely better than the trash can lids we had before, but you get what you pay for
 
Sometimes I setup my kit differently when I am playing in the studio. Since you don't have to get everything right the first time like you do live, I find it easier and more helpful to setup the kit with a little more space in between everything.
 
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