SM57 on snare is doodie, over and out...

[tubedude]

Been using my MD441 on snare for quite a while now, but it keeps getting hit and I'm afraid someones gonna smack it good and end its life, so I traded off a headphone for an SM57 at music-go-round and used it on a session this weekend.
Overall sound is ok, but how can you guys work with that much fucking bleed? I have more hihat in the snare track than I do snare. More everything, practically. The 441 is like 90% snare, much better isolation. Very easy to get spoiled with that much iso... now I gotta figure out what o do with this lousy snare track I have to work with.

Whats a good snare mic with good isolation that I can afford to get smacked a lot? Maybe I'll pop for another e604, but I'm not sure how much tighter it is than the 57, I might compare them soon.

 

[tmix]

Tubedude,
I have gotten the maximum isolation pointing the 57 from nearly under the hats pointing away toward the snare. This may be exactly what you ARE doing. I have not ever gotten a satisfactory sound from my 57s on my snare. I rack it up to a Mackie vlz board and my obvious inability. I have tried for 6 years only to abandon it for a B3 condensor. Sounds great but the hat bleed is much worse than the 57 unless you play with the fig 8 mode a little.
Now that I own a few RNPs I am about to try again with the 57s just to save my B3 from hits as well.

Tom

 

[Track Rat]

I hear you. The 57 has a wider capture area than the 441. I know no believes it but I still swear by the AKG C-1000 with the attachment on the capsule that turns it to hyper-cardiod on snare. My weapon of choice. And if the drummer smacks it, so what.

 

[Neil Ogilvie]

My two main choices for snare are both sennheisers, the e604 and the e845. I found that the SM57 (or 58 with ball off for me ) had too much bleed also. I also thought it sounded a little dead...... Prefer the sennheisers.

The e604 is Cardoid and the e845 is super cardoid, but I've never had sufficient snare problems in the past.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I've been using a Groove Tubes AM52 cond (from when GT was Alesis-owned) on snare several occasions lately and it works very well!

 

[Track Rat]

Bruce, I use a AM-52 out in front of the kit about 3 feet or so. I find this fills out the sound a LOT.

 

[eeldip]

yea, that high hat bleed. first of all, i like the bleed. why?

somehow off axis 57 response is a great high hat track to me. totally ditches the top and bottom... perfect mid heavy high hat... perfect...

so you work around it. make sure your OH scheme isnt picking up much hat. center your OH. try front and back, not right and left.

then you dont have to worry so much about that bleed.



have you tried micing the snare with the 441 parallel to the floor pointed at the center of the snare shell right near the sound hole? never worked for me, but i have heard good things about it.

 

[chessrock]

somehow off axis 57 response is a great high hat track to me. totally ditches the top and bottom... perfect mid heavy high hat... perfect...

That's interesting, eeldip.


Next time someone asks me "What's a great hi-hat mic?" I'll just tell 'em "An sm57 pointed in the opposite direction."

 

[Track Rat]

So much of what hats sound like depends on the hi hats themselves and how they're being hit. Two drummers on the same kit with the same mics will sound completely different.

 

[mixmkr]

beyer m160 on snare. If someone hits it, you break their knees...but why would you want to record a drummer that can't even hit a friggin snare drum right in front of them? If you're just paying bills recording lousy drummers, who cares what mic you use. A 57 should work just fine in that application...both as a target and a transducer.

 

[SubA]

Bruce, I use a AM-52 out in front of the kit about 3 feet or so. I find this fills out the sound a LOT.

I tried this Saturday night and it sounded like shit. How high did you place it, and did you pad it?

Curious about placement on snare, too...

thanks

 

[Track Rat]

For the most part, I place snare mics out about 4" to 6" from the snare angled down at the rim/head. It sounds better than the way I always used to do it (two fingers width past the rim and about two fingers high over the top of the head) with the high hats in the null point of the pick up pattern of the mic.
As far as the AM-52 goes, I put it out in front of the kick about 3' at the height of the top of the kick shell in cardiod.

 

[SubA]

I'll have to try that snare placement... I usually do it the way you used to, along with one on the bottom. Okay... but I've never been thrilled with it. I think my room has a lot to do with just about any crappy sound I get from a room mic, because I've tried a couple different mics in various positions out in front without success. I'll keep trying things until I get something useful, though.

thanks for the tips...

 

[DJL]

Like I said in your other thread... the Beyer M201 is my favorite snare mic. Oh, and next time you try a SM57 on the snare... try placing it on the high end away from your crotch and about 1/2" in from the rim and straight down at the snare and almost touching the top snare head. Oh, and tune the snare first.

 

[Han]

I agree about the M201, my favorite snare mic.

If a drummer smacks it, no problemo, no dent, only a smack sound.

The 441 is a great snare mic too, you might try a foam pop filter in order to protect it from smacks.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Bruce, I use a AM-52 out in front of the kit about 3 feet or so. I find this fills out the sound a LOT.

Hmmm - I'll have to try that!

 

[mrface2112]

<<parallel to the floor pointed at the center of the snare shell right near the sound hole?>>

i've done this with a studio projects B1--pointing right at the shell of the snare drum from about a foot or so away and got a really nice, woody whack out of it. i remember being surprised at how nice and natural it sounded.

of course, you may need to use a pad on it. and it will get a lot of hihat in it too, but i found it to be a nice compliment to what the overheads were getting, since i don't use a dedicated hihat mic.


wade

 

[M.Brane]

Beyer M69 on the shell, ass-end pointed at the hats.

 

[sweetnubs]

although the '57 isn't the snare mic of my choice is certainly is usable. I use a schoeps small diapragm condensor generally. Use the polar pattern to put the hi-hat in the rejecting portion its pick up pattern. Also I come in with the mic pointing straight down at the snare to help reject the rest of the kit even more. I mean straight down. however you gotta watch putting too much of the ass end in direction of the hi-hat or you start picking up the kick. Also people forget there are lots of loading issues with dynamic mics and preamps. Half the time you are getting shitty sound because your load is incorrect. Dynamics are very sensitive to proper loading and if you have preamps which can select different impedances you will hear a drastic shift in the sound quality with different selections. A lot of great engineers don't like 57's for nothing. It is user error my friend. I mic the top and bottom of the snare and blend to taste. Mic parallel to the snare wires not perpendicular. Also you will have to invert the polarity of the bottom mic in reference to the top mic. word.

 

[leglesseye]

The K & K ST8 is the best snare mic ever, very tough but kind of pricey.

http://www.kksound.com/dynast8.html