Skipping / Converting tracks to .wav

[JonPaulP]

I haven't been using buses, and have had tracks with maybe 5 - 10 effects each. Now, I've noticed a lot of skipping, even after I have frozen the tracks on Cubase.

I'm thinking of just converting the individual tracks into wavs (with the effects), so the effects won't cause any more lag.

How do I convert tracks into .wav without using the freeze option? I know I can export as a wav, but I'm looking for something that would allow the track to remain as is, but as a wav file.

Thanks!

 

[RAMI]

and have had tracks with maybe 5 - 10 effects each.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

You do know that the freeze option *DOES* save the rendered track as a WAV file on it's own, right?

You should be able to highlight the track and select it for "Export" as a WAV file, but then you'd just have to re-import it into the project as a new track to use it, and you'll be stuck with that track as-is, without the ability to go back and undo any of the extreme number of effects you have on it.

I know you wanted a non-freeze option, but frankly I can't think of a single reason why, other than creating a solo example track that you might want to send to someone else. But for simply eliminating computer slow-down, freeze is the way to go. It *does* save separate WAV files, but does so in a way where you don't have to go through a bunch of extra steps to incorporate them into the project, and where you can always easily go back and undo any or all of your effects if need be. You can't do any of that with exported WAVs.

G.

 

[JonPaulP]

You do know that the freeze option *DOES* save the rendered track as a WAV file on it's own, right?

You should be able to highlight the track and select it for "Export" as a WAV file, but then you'd just have to re-import it into the project as a new track to use it, and you'll be stuck with that track as-is, without the ability to go back and undo any of the extreme number of effects you have on it.

I know you wanted a non-freeze option, but frankly I can't think of a single reason why, other than creating a solo example track that you might want to send to someone else. But for simply eliminating computer slow-down, freeze is the way to go. It *does* save separate WAV files, but does so in a way where you don't have to go through a bunch of extra steps to incorporate them into the project, and where you can always easily go back and undo any or all of your effects if need be. You can't do any of that with exported WAVs.

G.

Does the freeze include the effects? I thought it only froze the vst instruments. It's strange because even when I've frozen all the tracks, there's still skipping (probably about 40+ tracks).

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Does the freeze include the effects? I thought it only froze the vst instruments. It's strange because even when I've frozen all the tracks, there's still skipping (probably about 40+ tracks).

Think of "freeze" as temporary pre-rendering, because that's basically what it is. It renders the frozen track with all the effects applied so that the CPU doesn't have to bog down by applying the effects in real-time. yes it does render any applied plug effects as well.

You may (not so) simply be skipping because of computer performance issues. 40+ tracks is a lot of tracks, even pre-rendered. While most of today's computers should have the throughput to handle that, bottlenecks can crop up.

First I'd make absolutely sure you have o viruses, trojans, etc. infecting you computer.

Second, I'd make sure your hard drives are properly defragmented with all garbage can and temproary files deleted first.

Third, I'd isolate the computer form the Internet while using it as an audio device (there's rarely any need to be doing both at the same time).

Fourth, I'd remove - or at least deactivate - any and all memory TSRs such as anti-viral software, firewalls, weatherbugs, etc. that you don't absolutely need running while you're working the audio. Of course the same is true for other applications.

If all that is done and you're still skipping, then you might need to look at checking to make sure your memory is all working OK, that your hard drives are giving proper throughput, etc. If possible, make sure your project and data drives are on separate data buses and are the first slot in their bus.

If you are running MS Vista, back-grade to WinXP. If you have a smaller/older computer, sometimes all you need is a memory upgrade.

Finally, you can always reduce the size of your Cubase project by rendering stereo stems of parts of the project when you're done with them. For example, let's say you have 8 drum tracks and a bass track, Ge them right in the mix, mix them together, and render them as a stereo rhythm stem. Youv'e now dropped 9 tracks to 2 tracks.

G.

 

[JonPaulP]

If you are running MS Vista, back-grade to WinXP. If you have a smaller/older computer, sometimes all you need is a memory upgrade.

Hmm...I am using Windows Vista on a new computer. Vista is known to have problems with audio recording software?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Hmm...I am using Windows Vista on a new computer. Vista is known to have problems with audio recording software?

Not that I know of directly. What I was referring to there is the fact that Vista is such a HUGE system resource hog, that if you have anything less than a fairly state-of-the-art computer to run it on with plenty of CPU cycles and memory (no I don't have exact numbers), so much of your system will be spent just running the OS that there won't be a whole lot left for your DAW applications.

Win7 comes out next month to replace Vista. It's supposed to be much smaller and more efficient that Vista, which is a promising trend reversal for Microsoft.

G.

 

[JonPaulP]

Not that I know of directly. What I was referring to there is the fact that Vista is such a HUGE system resource hog, that if you have anything less than a fairly state-of-the-art computer to run it on with plenty of CPU cycles and memory (no I don't have exact numbers), so much of your system will be spent just running the OS that there won't be a whole lot left for your DAW applications.

Win7 comes out next month to replace Vista. It's supposed to be much smaller and more efficient that Vista, which is a promising trend reversal for Microsoft.

G.

OK, so I tried it on Vista and XP and the results were fairly similar.

I'm using Cubase Essential 4, do you think that's it? Should I upgrade to Cubase 5/Studio 5?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

OK, so I tried it on Vista and XP and the results were fairly similar.

I'm using Cubase Essential 4, do you think that's it? Should I upgrade to Cubase 5/Studio 5?

You should start at the top of the list and work your way down. You're concentrating on OS and software versions is concentrating on the lest likely of candidates, IME.

No, you should not upgrade (yet). There's no good reason why CE4 *shouldn't* work, unless there's something with your computer config getting in the way.

If after covering that list you still have problems, get a local tech to check out the situation; fine troubleshooting of computers via Internet forum is a fool's errand.

G.

 

[justadrummer]

"rendering" question

What is your preferred method of rendering, say, 8 drum tracks to a stereo track.

I set all my effects, levels and pans, then have to sends them out
of the computer and back in on two new channels.
Is there a way to do this internally that im missing?

I think i just answered my own question. but i'd like to still hear
how you guys do it? thanks

 

[JonPaulP]

You should start at the top of the list and work your way down. You're concentrating on OS and software versions is concentrating on the lest likely of candidates, IME.

No, you should not upgrade (yet). There's no good reason why CE4 *shouldn't* work, unless there's something with your computer config getting in the way.

If after covering that list you still have problems, get a local tech to check out the situation; fine troubleshooting of computers via Internet forum is a fool's errand.

G.

Thanks for the reply, Glen. I tried out your suggestions. I'm thinking it may not be a computer issue since I tried it on two brand new workstation computers with Vista and XP. I also moved some files around and currently have 552 GB free (of 696 GB) with the VST instruments stored in a seperate internal hard drive. I defragmented the computer last week and also turned off the internet and virus software for a test last night. The project files were still skipping.

I did notice something on both computers. In one of my project files, I had 8 vocal tracks with 8 effects each (the VST instruments were all frozen and there was a total of about 30 tracks). The project file stopped skipping when I deleted 4 of the vocal tracks.

I was reading through the Cubase Essential and Cubase comparison chart and was wondering if this may be it:

Number of audio tracks (simultaneous playback)
Cubase Essential: 64
Cubase: unlimited

Audio tracks (simultaneous record)
Cubase Essential: 32
Cubase: 256

VST Instrument slots
Cubase Essential: 16
Cubase: 64

Physical inputs/outputs
Cubase Essential: 32
Cubase: 256

Workspaces (virtual desktops)
Cubase Essential: no
Cubase: yes

Vista 64 native Cubase 64-bit version
Cubase Essential: no
Cubase: yes

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/musicproduction/cubase5_product/cubase5_featuredetails100.html
http://www.steinbergusers.com/cubase/compchart2.php

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I did notice something on both computers. In one of my project files, I had 8 vocal tracks with 8 effects each (the VST instruments were all frozen and there was a total of about 30 tracks). The project file stopped skipping when I deleted 4 of the vocal tracks.

Did you also try it by freezing the vocal tracks instead of deleting them? Remember, freezing will pre-render effects amd plugs as well as instruments.

You know, 8x8=64, right? That's a *LOT* of effects to be running at once - especially if you start adding things like reverbs or modelers. But even with less CPU-intensive effects, that's an awful lot to be running at one time without freezing.

I'm also just personally curious as to what kind of music we're talking about when you have 8 tracks of vocals that require 8 plugs each (!?).

G.

 

[JonPaulP]

Did you also try it by freezing the vocal tracks instead of deleting them? Remember, freezing will pre-render effects amd plugs as well as instruments.

You know, 8x8=64, right? That's a *LOT* of effects to be running at once - especially if you start adding things like reverbs or modelers. But even with less CPU-intensive effects, that's an awful lot to be running at one time without freezing.

I'm also just personally curious as to what kind of music we're talking about when you have 8 tracks of vocals that require 8 plugs each (!?).

G.

I haven't tried freezing the vocal tracks yet, but I'll try it later.

The track with the 8 tracks is this one: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7599812

VST Instrument Tracks (frozen): 20

Vocal Tracks (not frozen): 8

Plug-ins for first 4 vocal tracks:
MelodyneBridge
PingPongDelay
Roomworks SE
VST Dynamics
VST Dynamics

* The VST Dynamics is the compressor and I put it twice to smooth out vocals, if there is a better way to do this, I'd like to know.

The next 4 tracks have the same plug-ins, but I also added chorus, and stepfilters.

The plug-in settings are nearly identical for all the the vocal tracks. Could the problem be that I'm not using buses or aux sends or whatever? I haven't figured out how to use them yet, haha.


The problem I'm experiencing with other project files is that they somewhat skip when I start recording vocals on tracks with only 2 or 3 plug-ins.

For example, for this track: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7540892

There are 35 VST instrument tracks because of the orchestral arrangement. When I start laying on the vocals, it skips a little. The final version of this project file has 11 vocal tracks with 3 plug-ins each.

 

[Massive Master]

That's what I was thinking also...

I think someone needs to learn what "aux" means (for starters).

 

[RAMI]

I'm also just personally curious as to what kind of music we're talking about when you have 8 tracks of vocals that require 8 plugs each (!?).

G.

Yes. Which is why my first response in this thread was:

First 4 tracks plug-ins
MelodyneBridge
PingPongDelay
Roomworks SE
VST Dynamics
VST Dynamics
* The VST Dynamics is the compressor and I put it twice to smooth out vocals

It did the exact opposite. Your "S"s and "T"s are sibilent as hell and really popping out.

Man, you're a good singer, but you're killing it with all those effects. Your vocal is over-processed and squashed to death. I know you didn't ask for a critique of your recording, but since you did post the tune, I figured I'd give my opinion on what I hear.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'm not going to critique the vocals, I'll leave that for the MP3 clinic guys, but I can give some personal suggestions on studio technique and workflow.

Fiest, you and others have touched up0n one key concept, and that would be learning to set up auxiliary effects buses. It's not difficult in concept or in practice; just think of it as a submix of tracks that are all recieving the same effects settings. I can't say just what Cubase Essential's capabilities are in this respect, but the manual and/or the Help huppton should give you what you need to get started.

Second is the idea that you don't necessarily have to run all effects in one chain simultaneously. You could render your track(s) in stages, getting the (just for example) Melodyne and delay out of the way first, render those as separate track versions, then take those versions and run the dynamics on them. This can have the advantage also of letting you go back to a partially finished track and re-doing just the rest of the stuff you want yo make changes to, instead of having to re-do everything from scratch.

Third, and one I advocate often here, is to get used to using the freeze feature all the time, especially when working on projects with a large number of tracks. What I do actually, is start the project out by laying out the tracks and *freezing every one of them.* Then as I work, I'm rarely actually *working* on more than one or two (sometimes three) tracks at a time, so I just unfreeze those 1-3 tracks as I work on them. When I move on to new tracks, I'll freeze the ones I just finished with and unfreeze the new ones.

This method has a couple of advantages, First is the obvoius saving of CPU resources. Second is if my PC locks up or crashes in the middle of a session, the frozen tracks can be recovered as-is even I get on a roll and forget to do a "Save Project". Third is it's easy to keep track of the tracks and where I'm at in the project if I step away from it for an hour or a day. And fourth (and this happens to *everybody* sooner or later ), it helps avoid spending anywhere from 5 seconds to 30 minutes accidentally tryng to fix a problem with one track and butting your head against a wall only to realize that none of what you're doing is working because you're actually looking at track 5 but unintentionally applying you edits to to track 8. That sounds funny, but trust me, when it's 11pm and you've been tracking and mixing all day and you've been staring at and editing a 30-track project for the past couple of hours, it happens . Unless you have all the rest of the tracks frozen, in which case you can't make that mistake.

G.

 

[LemonTree]

I'd get my head stuck into the manual and figure out how the aux busses & group channels work. I could go into great detail here and make things easy but you're more inclined to take it all in and understand it more if you read it and understand it and put it into practice in your own way.

If your playback is skipping what you can do it bump up the AISO sample rate. A good practice to get into is to find a stable AISO sample rate and get ALL your tracking done. Then, bump it up when you don't have to worry about latency when the tracking process is done. This will give you a lot more horsepower for applying effects.

Reverbs and delays will usually eat into your computer resources faster than anything else so I'll give you a little pointer to get you started. On any given project I'll probably only use 4 instances of reverb and 2 instances of delay, that's 6 effects in total...not a great deal of resources being used there.

In cubase, on the project view right click on one of the audio channels, select ADD TRACK then ADD FX CHANNEL from the drop down menu. The add FX channel track box pops up on screen and from there you can select you effect...lets say Roomworks SE. That's you set up your first aux effects buss. If you now open any audio channel and click in the first SENDS space you will see FX 1-Roomworks SE. You can now sellect that as an AUX send and with the slider bar determine how much of the audio track is sent to the effects buss. You can send as many audio tracks as you like to that one effect saving your computer resources.

Even bigger savings can be made by creating a GROUP TRACK, you do this the same way you set up the FX track but select CREATE GROUP TRACK. Say you have 5 backing vocal tracks you want to put the same reverb on. Create a group track and name it B-Vox. In the channel view of each audio track above the fader and to the right of the SENDS you can select the input and output for each track. If you click on the output you will now see GROUPS and B-Vox will be listed under there. Select this for all 5 backing vocal tracks then open the channel view for that GROUP track, you can now select the Roomworks SE from the sends of the group track and apply reverb to all 5 backing vocals at the same time. You could also hit them all with the same compressor by using the inserts slots of the group track.

That should be enough to get you started. I'll also say if you are struggling to run a project in Cubase SE then upgrading your cubase to a higher version with more features will also be more CPU hungry than the lighter version you are using. Get into a good work ethic or reading about and understanding groups and aux send and you'll never need to use the freeze function again.

Good luck with it

Alex

 

[LemonTree]

And fourth (and this happens to *everybody* sooner or later ), it helps avoid spending anywhere from 5 seconds to 30 minutes accidentally tryng to fix a problem with one track and butting your head against a wall only to realize that none of what you're doing is working because you're actually looking at track 5 but unintentionally applying you edits to to track 8. That sounds funny, but trust me, when it's 11pm and you've been tracking and mixing all day and you've been staring at and editing a 30-track project for the past couple of hours, it happens .

G.

We've ALL been there and done that one. I was tracking my own band only last week and after about 9 hours solid at it our singer asked for a little more delay on his vocals...selected the track and slid more send to the delay I had set up on one of the FX tracks. He asked for a little bit more, then a bit more, then a tiny bit less...sounded great to us both untill the guitar solo came in and I realised I'd been on that channel view by mistake and swamped the solo in delay...that's when we called it a night.

 

[noisewreck]

I've done better than that. I've broken a strings on guitars and harpsichors while tuning them and wondering why there was no change in pitch!

 

[noisewreck]

Several "rules":
1. Time based effects (reverb, delay) are prime candidates for being used as send FX.
2. If you are using the same processor with the same settings on a bunch of tracks, than they are a prime candidate for being routed to a group track where you put your processors.
3. When mixing, increase your soundcard latency to help the CPU out.

Further considerations.

When inserting a delay or reverb on an FX bus, insert it in the second or third slot. This will give you added flexibility, in case you find you need to place an EQ, for example, before the effect to tailor the frequencies going into the effect.

In point #2, I want to stress that since compressors (and other non-linear processors, such as distortion, expanders, gates, etc) will react differently when put on the bus, vs on a single track, it might not be a good candidate for point #2, if you are compressing an individual track for a certain reason. However, bus compression has it's own uses that can be used to a great effect.

When all else fails, pick up playing the ukulele and keep it simple