sjoko or anybody

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dobro

dobro

Well-known member
In a review of a song I put in the clinic, sjoko gave me this advice:

"On a more serious note, there are 2 components, the vocal and the guitar. In this mix they both occupy the same space. In other words, the guitar does not support the vocal. Bring the guitar down a bit, and give it some more space, perhaps by a very small pinch of delayed reverb, panned. If possible with the tools you have got, this would move the guitar to the rear and sides, while making your vocal come through the center."

I know how to move the guitar to one side and cut the gain a bit so that by comparison, the vocal stands out more and has its own space. But I don't know how to do the technique mentioned above. What's delayed reverb? Are we talking about two guitar tracks panned, both of them with reverb, but one a few milliseconds out of sync with the other? Or does it mean reverb with some delay applied? If so, do *both* guitar tracks have delay? And are they panned left and right?

So many questions, so little time... :D
 
attempted explanation

obviously I can't know exactly what was meant since i am not the original advice giver, but all indications are that you should simply bring the volume down a bit and the delay he was talking about will broaden the spectrum of the guitar without the need of creating a second track...when you add delay to a stereo track you will notice the offset is different from one channel to the other (the right speaker will play a millisecond after the left or something like that) giving it that "wider" sound..so it has a presence without overtaking the center channel and your vocals...if you pan it maybe just a small degree to the right or left...

dlv
 
I didn't go to Gidges thread that he referenced, but some reverbs, most of them I think have the ability to change when the reverb actually happens similar to the attack on a compressor. Some of the ones that I think Sjoko is talking about is a delay with reverb. The difference is that one sounds the original note and delays the reverb, the other delays the note and adds reverb without predelay. It allows you to hear the vocal just barely in front because of the delay and then takes the edge off by slurring the guitars a tad so they don't compete as the primary focus. A general rule is too never have guitars in the center, maybe at 2 and 10 at the closest. YMMV

As a learning experience just move the fader up on the vocals 2 or 3 db with the guitars at 2 and 10, then compare.

SoMm
 
Gidge and S of M (son of his mother? or is it a mistake and the of should be an &:) ) are right, I was talking about a pre-delayed reverb.
On most reverb units (and plug-ins) you can adjust the amount of time the reverb comes in after the original attack. In addition they often have a facility for varying the diffusion.
With those tools you have the ability to "spread" the sound, creating the effect of moving the sound away from the center, which allows the vocal to come through.

I would suggest playing with the above is preferable over copying a track and delaying it slightly. That is still the same sound, with the addition of potential phasing problems.
 
sjoko2 said:


I would suggest playing with the above is preferable over copying a track and delaying it slightly. That is still the same sound, with the addition of potential phasing problems.
Click to expand...

Yeah, great idea. Being able to adjust the predelay parameter real time is faster because you just twist until satisfied. I pretend I can't do electronic doubles, that way It almost never has phasing problems(mostly because I can't play the same thing twice)

SoMm
 
Yup, I can adjust predelay on the reverb, as well as diffusion. So, what I did on this one was put a bit less predelay on the guitar (which was panned left and right of the vocal) than the vocal. My thinking was that that would give the vocal more definition. Guess it didn't work... LOL

As for diffusion, I have no idea how to change the sound using it...
 
I don't know how you did put the delay / verb on the guitar channel. However, in a case like this it is best not to put it on the channel itself, but create a a stereo aux., and bus the guitar through that. That way you have maximum flexibility without it effecting the quality of the original guitar sound.
 
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