Singing classic rock, feeling vs. notes? Rockin Robby - 13 years old

[CrowsofFritz]

LOL! You're using a question mark at every sentence?

It's strange to read?


But that aside, I know your point. There is emotion in music, but not the way that some people make it out to be. A musician makes a silly face and you connect with the song, and the musician gets praise for emotion?

It's how the artist conveys the piece. Take Francisco Tarrega's "Lagrima". He wrote the song when he was home sick. For someone who doesn't know the song, they may think it's a love piece. I've played that piece to quite a few ladies, and they interpret it as a love piece. Emotion is mostly on the listener's part. The better the musician conveys emotion, the more powerful emotion the listener can feel.

Here's the biggest statement.


Why do we feel such emotion when a character we like in a movie dies? Why do we feel such emotion when they go through heartache or triumph? They're ACTING! It's the emotion that was brought out. For the most part, musicians are like actors. Actors use a method to remember their most heartbreaking thing in their life when they are supposed to cry. They remember their most angry moment when they have an argument scene.

Musicians are the same. Yes, we write songs about things that ACTUALLY happen to us, as opposed to acting someone else's life, but we don't write a song as soon as someone dies. The minute our teenage girlfriend dumped us, we don't grab the guitar and start writing. We experience the heartbreak, and THEN we write the song. The emotions are not nearly as powerful as they were. But it can still be conveyed. But someone can come along and interpret it completely different than what you were trying. Like I said, most of the emotion is on the listener.

 

[grimtraveller]

So the ultimate achivement, IMO as a singer ? Is to "touch someone deeply..." With your performance. THAT is the ultimate/highest form of our art... To touch someone, to trigger a feeling, a memory, an emotion... With your performance, and or with your production/presentation.

I don't disagree with this in principle but I do wonder how conscious this is on the part of the performer.

There is no higher praise (again IMO) as a musician/artist than when someone tells you how much your song, or your performance meant to them at a particular time in their life.

Possibly. But what if you, the artist were just going through the motions ? What if you felt nothing or worse still, that you were shitty but someone else loved it ?
I remember once, my friend and I had finished playing at a meeting and we were both feeling down because we'd felt nothing. We sang and I played guitar and the rest of the band played but my friend and I sang and played because we knew the songs, that is, we knew where the music and words fell but because we were both feeling shitty, afterwards we were lamenting on how crap it had all been. And as soon as we were done lamenting, people came up to us and told us how wonderful it had been and how they'd been touched to their soul and encouraged to carry on through their problems. And we thought it was crap because we felt nothing and had performed by rote.
Go figure.

most of the emotion is on the listener.

^^^^^^^Key point. Some truly happy songs with bright performances have been recorded when the artist was close to suicidal or certainly anything but joyous. But a good singer can "sound" emotional, the same way a good actor can convey a range of feelings. But unless the listener is ready to project, it matters little either way. And one person's "emotion/feeling" is another person's "over the top". Who is right ?

 

[triquee]

I don't disagree with this in principle but I do wonder how conscious this is on the part of the performer.

I don't know what it's like for other performers, but I connect with music on a very personal level. When I create or recreate music it is because I am inspired/moved in some way. When I sing a song, I open the gate to the what the song means to me - the thoughts and feelings the song evokes in me - without a single thought to how it will be received. In my mind, I'm telling a story. The lyrics, chord progression, composition, melody - they all evoke something in me that naturally translates when I translate the piece, in the same way that you can see and hear the excitement in someone's voice when they tell you about some great event happening in their lives or the timbre of your voice when you tell someone you're seeing that you don't think it's going to work out.

Possibly. But what if you, the artist were just going through the motions ? What if you felt nothing or worse still, that you were shitty but someone else loved it ?
I remember once, my friend and I had finished playing at a meeting and we were both feeling down because we'd felt nothing. We sang and I played guitar and the rest of the band played but my friend and I sang and played because we knew the songs, that is, we knew where the music and words fell but because we were both feeling shitty, afterwards we were lamenting on how crap it had all been. And as soon as we were done lamenting, people came up to us and told us how wonderful it had been and how they'd been touched to their soul and encouraged to carry on through their problems. And we thought it was crap because we felt nothing and had performed by rote.
Go figure.

You said it yourself. You were feeling shitty but played anyway. Your praise was that you encouraged people to "carry on through their problems," just as you had carried on and performed through your shitty feelings.

^^^^^^^Key point. Some truly happy songs with bright performances have been recorded when the artist was close to suicidal or certainly anything but joyous. But a good singer can "sound" emotional, the same way a good actor can convey a range of feelings. But unless the listener is ready to project, it matters little either way. And one person's "emotion/feeling" is another person's "over the top". Who is right ?

Sometimes people detect the irony or deeper struggle in the performance or recording. Sometimes, people are completely clueless and read into what they want to read into things.

As for who is right...No one is right or wrong. Since it's relative (to the state or perspective of the listener) neither the person who feels something deeply nor the person who perceives the emotion as over the top can deny what the other is feeling, because it's what the other is feeling. It's like a joke. Just because I don't find it funny doesn't necessarily mean it's not funny. Maybe I just don't have the frame of reference required to appreciate it. It's the same with music. Maybe the person who finds the emotion of a song to be "over the top" doesn't have the frame of reference required to appreciate the emotion conveyed.

 

[RockinRobby]

Hrm... For me, there are absolutely songs that I listen to that will make me tear up... And some of those, I've written. I agree that it's a strange chemistry between the performer, the performance, and the listener.

As I've said before, "music" pre-dates society... It pre-dates civilation. When our ancestors were dancing before fire, and making cave paintings, before written language, they had music. They may not have had instruments outside of percussion, but they had music. That makes what we do, "music" something that's primal... And that is why it can touch emotions deep inside, because it's an expression we've had before we were modern man (and woman).

Stoneage man had music. It would be cool to hear it!

 

[grimtraveller]

And as if by magic......

 

[RockinRobby]

Yeah, I was thinking more 30 to 50 thousand years ago ;-) We were cave men, but we had fire, we had stone tools, and we had music. And we were just begining to domesticate wolves in to dogs.

 

[grimtraveller]

But did stone age man sing with feeling ?

Mick Jaggam Forehead was around 50, 000 years ago, in the days when there were beatles, byrds and other animals ! Howling wolf was well on the way to becoming a mangy dog {of two head }.
But no one had invented the camera yet so this is mere conjecture.

 

[RockinRobby]

I just hope I can keep singing... I'm starting to get on up there, and your voice is an instrument that goes :-( I'm still singing! And I just finished writing a new one :-D A country/pop number which relies heavily on my vocals. I don't pick the song or the genera, I am merely the vessel... The song happens? It gets written. I’m there? But I don’t really feel like I wrote it, I feel more like “I channel it.” (because music is primal…) Look for it soon, called “Soft truths…”

My latest "Is this me?" is an example of what I'm talking about, singing with feeling vs. exactly on the notes. The singer "has to feel it..." We all know what it is instinctivly when we hear it? And I'm not sure it can be taught or learned.

 

[grimtraveller]

your voice is an instrument that goes

It's true. And the older you get, the more you have to maintain it.

I don't pick the song or the genera, I am merely the vessel... The song happens? It gets written. I’m there? But I don’t really feel like I wrote it, I feel more like “I channel it.” (because music is primal…)

I often feel like asking the holders of this view who or what they're channelling these songs from. Because the implication is that they're coming from somewhere and if they're coming from somewhere they're either coming from someone or just floating about the universe looking for a home. I believe neither.
People write songs.

 

[RockinRobby]

Well my personal belief? While I understand that there are doubters, and detractors, and those who are just generally cantankerous, rambunctious, disagreeable, argumentative, I could go on? But I understand some hold different opinions? I know that some are objectionable, reprehensible, disagreeable? I know, everyone does not agree with me (unfortunately.)

However, I still believe "firmly" that the artist/singer is the vessel, and the song? Well, it’s the water? Or the wine? And the singer/”vessel” holds the song? And pours it out?

These are my beliefs "as a singer/vessel?" I can post the links to the examples? "Numerous links..." And I can defend "rigorously" my position... I welcome others who can post "numerous links." To their own performances? With which they can dispute my position? I would be willing to bet large sums of money that those posts won’t be forthcoming…

"Large sums..." The difference between someone who holds true beliefs? And someone who is blowing smoke? Is proof...

I make this claim based on 20+ years of writing songs. I've written many excellent songs, most good? Some? Well, I like to think they're all good But I've gone months, years? And all of a sudden? A song "jumps out and presents itself" Like a man in a raincoat? I’m there, I’m part of the creative process? But I didn’t set out to write it? I was there, and I was part of it, but “it happened…” Which is why I say, the song picked me? And “if you’re a song writer?” I dare you to say you’ve never experienced this, or you have no idea what I’m talking about. If you’re not a song writer?

like to recommend a warmer climate…

 

[chuckduffy]

dot dot dot

 

[RockinRobby]

Indeed, disregard anything and everything I say past 10:00 PM as it may be, and probably is influenced by one of my many addictions. Or just take the quicker route and disregard anything and everything I say, that's actually much easier? "Technically" Anything I type. Although there is software that converts speach to text? So it could be something I say? But I don't use that software, so disregard that last bit. Is it 10 yet? Damn, early night I guess...

 

[grimtraveller]

I'm curious as to why you use so many question marks when so many of the sentences that the ???s follow aren't questions or even rhetorical ones. No offence, I'm just curious.

I dare you to say you’ve never experienced this, or you have no idea what I’m talking about.

I have experienced this tons of times. I've made the point time and time again both on these pages and in private conversation that there are a number of ways of writing songs. Some songs are like pulling teeth. They seem to be so difficult to write and are problematic at almost every turn. Others are so straightforward, maybe require a little work but seem to flow. And then there are those that arrive moreorless fully formed, that appear to have been "out there" looking for some receptacle to be poured into.
But that's not weird. That's not unusual. It's a bit like free association or even {cough, cough} preaching or a speech that isn't scripted or improvisation. Or even a conversation on a topic you hadn't thought about recently.
And those songs are still written. They still have to be teased out. That appear the way they do is part of the wonder of being human.

 

[RockinRobby]

I like to preface this by saying it's after 10 here?

I apologize for that, I've done it for some time (the ??? at the end of sentances?) I'm pretty sure I was a valley girl in another life? So they have that voice? That goes up at the end of their sentance? Like it's always a question? I don't do it intentionally... But I do "do it", I know I do it, and I can't help it.

Your input traveller is well spoken. And I'm sure for many, well stated. I guess we all approach it from our own perspective (song writting/performances) I don't "or rather should not" dispute or discount what you say, because you say it from your heart. You hold deep and sincere opinions, and my opinions, while they may not be in agreement? There's nothing that says the way I think/feel/believe is wright or better than the way that you think/feel/believe.

I'm pretty sure when it comes to something considered to be "art?" Like music, performance, and or writting? That it is such a personal thing, that one person cannot really say to another person, that what they feel, say, think? Is not so...

It is such a deeply personal thing? It is so rooted in who we are? That in reality, it is really impossible for me to say to you, or anyone else, what is or is not either good, or even really acceptable. We attempt to do so here? And it is a good thing that we have the ability to share our opinions and feelings about what we believe is good/bad, best practices/hey that sucks, etc...

But in reality? When you consider your opinion, i.e., "my opinion?" as that of the individual? It helps put things in perspective. And your comments here have done "just that." Thank you for your comments, they are actually some of the best, if not the best.

 

[RockinRobby]

Oh, and "you suck!" LOL! (sorry, it's after 10...) hahahaha

 

[Farview]

I know Im a little late to the thread and didn't read the whole thing but...

Many people confuse having a feeling while performing with conveying a feeling through performing. There is a difference. The former is an excuse, the latter is what we are all trying to achieve.

 

[rayc]

Mawkish trash connects with squillions of people on emotional & spiritual levels. It's often CONSTRUCTED to do just that. keys, chords, changes, breathing, cadence & cascade along with lyrics can allow the least sincere performer to milk tears from a garbage bin.
I remember pop from when i was a kid - Honey, Smiley, A Daisy A Day, Two Little Boys - there're a trillion of them.
The performer can invest 0 sincerity & emotion but perform a tearjerker perfectly. Why do people watch & cry during horribly sentimentalist & manipualtive movies? They want to, they need to, they love to?
The stones wrote The Singer Not the Song but they knew they were being disingenuous. that was a sly dig at the cult of personality & pretty boys.
Mutt lang is the master of inserting snippets of breathing, signs, gulps etc to give the impression of passion and connection - just ask Def Leppard how much he did that for them and how well it worked.

 

[CrowsofFritz]

I know Im a little late to the thread and didn't read the whole thing but...

Many people confuse having a feeling while performing with conveying a feeling through performing. There is a difference. The former is an excuse, the latter is what we are all trying to achieve.

This. This. This. This. This. This.


You read my post and plagiarized didn't you?!

LOL! Just kidding.

 

[kkat1]

you must know kgirl if she is still on reverbnation. Now it is her daughters turn.

 

[RockinRobby]

I think if you are the writer, "AND" the performer? Then maybe feeling makes more sence? If you are only the performer, feeling can still come in to play if the song has special meaning to you. If it touches you deeply, or reminds you of something special? An event, or an emotion? Then I still believe that the performer can literally deliver it with more emotion/feeling because it has meaning to them. I just wrote a new one, and I can deliver it with feeling/emotion because again, "I wrote it?" and therefore, it's an expression of my feelings/emotions, and again "therefore" I believe that I can perform it better/with more feeling than someone who is simply handed the lyrics and the melody. I know there are some very talented singers though, who can do this on the spot? But I believe someone can have an advantage/do this better under the right circumstances.

I have literally written some songs that I could not perform until dozens and dozens and dozens of tries because it was just too personal, and I would start crying. I don't think that can be faked.

An example is the 9th song down on my list, called "I tried..." It was written for a woman I loved, who passed in her 30s from cancer. It took a long time before I could record it. And still when I listen to it, it's difficult.