--sigh--

[vic91218]

Many people would like to learn about mastering..how it works, what's involved, and what it takes to get the "sound" everyone has labeled "pro." Luckily I live near a mastering facility here in Daytona Beach, and got my start learning from some pro's. The fun part is comparing what you can do on your own, with a small budget and plug-ins, to what the facility can give you. From there you can pick out where your master is weak... Hopefully you have made friends with the engineer's so you can ask "what made you do that/this?" or "how did you get it to sound more….."

It’s not so much the software/hardware that gets you the sound…though it helps…..like mentioned before; it’s 90% the person behind the tools.

It's pretty sad that it seems the world of "professional mastering" is so closed off to the general public. It's like a little cult or something. Any time someone wants to move forward on their own, as in learning the processes to master their own music, it’s immediately shot down as "amateur.” I’ve even seen posts that go as far as SCOLD the person trying to learn…
For example…

Originally posted by spectacle
The reason why I wan to master is cuz I want total control of my music.

Response posted by Blue Bear Sound
Then you will fail. Period. Your ears are not objective to your own project

This is just sad….and also complete bs…
I’m a musician that is mastering his own material…though I have guidance, I wouldn’t be so quick to jump to generalizations.

We all agree that you can get a great sound from a mastering house….that being said….lets stop taking credit away from the people who are trying to learn the art themselves, and instead of immediately shooing them away with a disturbing macho-istic attitude, welcome them into this underground gang we call “professional master engineers” and help them get to where they want to be.


These forums are great by the way….it’s only the comments of a few that seem to be misguided...

Peece,
-Vic

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

If I don't know what I'm talking about then straighten me out…

I'm about to........

Originally posted by spectacle
The reason why I wan to master is cuz I want total control of my music.

Response posted by Blue Bear Sound
Then you will fail. Period. Your ears are not objective to your own project

This is just sad….and also complete bs…

It IS NOT bs - and it shows how much more you need to learn about the process...........

You could be Bob-fucking-Katz and you still wouldn't be able to master your own project.......... WHY? Because aside from the technical aspects of needing an accurate monitoring chain that actually lets you hear what's really going on (which most "amateurs" don't have) - you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT need impartial ears to objectively judge the overall sound quality. After tracking and mixing for weeks, you simply get used to the sound you've created whether good or bad, and you can no longer be objective about it.

 

[VTgreen81]

Vic, stick around for a while, pay attention, get to know a bit about the posters. You just flamed one of the most helpful and knowledgeable guys here. You can learn a bunch from guy's like Bruce (A.K.A Blue Bear).

 

[vic91218]

The purpose of my post was not to flame any particular poster....even though I used his own words in my original post. It was to point out the lack of true invitation that is given out to outsiders of the Mastering world. I've read your posts Blue Bear...time and time again you say the same thing. "ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT need impartial ears to objectively judge the overall sound quality" …..We get it already!
Thank god for your advice....I almost tried to do it myself....what a mistake that would have been.....laugh.
Listen, I understand where your coming from....you own your own mastering house...and that's just great. I'm glad you've had success with your business. But let’s not forget that the majority of the people here on this board do not own their own facility, let alone their own "accurate monitoring chain"...by your standards anyway. Your right…you need impartial ears, and for those of us that can't afford your services.....USE YOUR FRIENDS AND ENEMIES as your impartial ears. Yeah, they may not be able to lend you a “trained ear” or advice, but they can damn sure tell you if it sucks or not....which isn't much more or less than what Blue Bear will tell you....

BTW…I’d recommend Mastering Audio, the art and science by BobKatz to anyone trying to get a start…

Also check out Blue Bears website http://www3.sympatico.ca/bvaleria/home.htm.
The Links and articles are pretty helpful...I’ve been there more than a couple times.
See, I even gave you a plug Blue Bear =)
Peece

 

[___TB___]

Sure you can master your own work, but for that pro sound you need professionals. Like Blue Bear said you hear the material too many times during recording and mixing.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Why pay other people to do the work you can do yourself? Hell, with a bit of sand paper and spray paint you can even paint your own car.

 

[Massive Master]

Lemme try to explain this as "I" understand it...

Many mastering engineers, myself included, are indeed very protective of their art... There is no magic plugin, box, program, book, etc. There is only years of experimentation and practice.

I need to be able to hear a recording one time and immediately know - "visualize" is a better word - precisely what it will/should/can sound like when it's done, and also immediately know 90% of what it will take to get it there. EQ - What frequencies, how wide, how much boost or cut. Compression - Ratios, types, attack & release, tubes or no tubes, digital or analog, which units. Stereo imaging - MS or no MS, width, phase cancellation, mono compatibility. Limiting - Where, at what point in the chain, how much. Noise reduction - Where, how much, samples & application. Program EQ - Which one (if any) and settings.

I (or any mastering engineer) should have an idea of all of those settings (just for starters) 30 seconds into hearing a track.

That's not to say that it's impossible for the average person to detect these things - I have no way of knowing what anyone else's mind is doing.

What I do know is that I used to run a 3000 square foot facility with hot & cold running receptionists. Now, I have a one man operation and an I'm lucky enough to have an apprentice with an open mind. He is quite the mixing engineer, and he thought he understood mastering. He thought... He's learning...

The reason that I don't have the 3000 square foot facility anymore is that there are so many people out there with a PC with WaveLab or SoundForge on it that are calling themselves "mastering engineers." The average "Joe" not knowing the difference, isn't going to a dedicated mastering engineer anymore. They're going to Frank's basement - He's got WaveLab!

So much for almost 20 years of studio experience - The jobs are going to inexperienced engineers with "mastering" programs. They throw an EQ and an L2 across it, smash the hell out of it until it's "really loud like a pro CD" and call it "mastered."

Some may think of us as "bitter" - I actually disagree... While it's true that my clientele has changed drastically over the last several years, the internet has allowed me to offer my services on a global level. I have clients from all across the US, several European countries, Canada, South America, etc. I am anything but "bitter" if I can help it.

So, I say "come on in - the water's fine." However, when asked how I get my stereo imaging the way I do, sorry, I've worked on that technique for years. Most engineers that I have talked to about it think I'm joking when I tell them how it's done. A lot of it goes against everything that you've read in your favorite books. Speaking of which, I've never read Mr. Katz's book, but I'm sure it's a great primer. HOWEVER, it's certainly NOT a substitue for the experience and intuition that are absolutely necessary to be a reasonably successful mastering engineer.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Well said, John!

Also - vic91218 -- while I do appreciate the "plug", I should correct your comment.... Blue Bear Sound is a recording studio, NOT a mastering house!

 

[vic91218]

I stand corrected regarding your recording studio Blue Bear.
Massive, I appreciate the perspective you've been so open to lend. I think I have a better understanding of why a few comments I’ve read can be misunderstood as "bitter." Although I cannot place myself in your shoes, I can see where you and other engineers are coming from. Thanks for the enlightenment.
-Vic