Sidechain Compression in a live setting

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kinleonn

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Hello.

What, in the opinion of you lovely folks, is the best way to duck my synth pad underneath a kick signal from a drumpad/midi pad? e.g. as a pad is being played from my Nord Stage keyboard, and when my bandmate triggers a kick from his drumpad, it automatically ducks underneath the drumpad live?

I've done some research and it seems that the best way is to use a compressor such as an Alesis 3630/3632, send the synth into the compressor's input, then send the drumpad signal to the sidechain input of the Alesis. My question then, is, how do the sidechain send/return inputs work on the Alesis? Which do I use? And also, if done in this manner, whether the kick from the drumpad will simply act as a detection signal for the Alesis, and the actual kick wont be heard over the final output of sound?

I'm also open to other options, like whether all this can be done through Ableton Live or something like that.

An additional question would be whether its possible for the Alesis compressor to duck the sound only when the sidechain signal is in a certain frequency range (so that only a kick signal would cause a duck, not a snare)

I understand that I just asked a whole lotta questions. So thank you so much for your patience!! But i've been really needing to get a good grasp of how this all works.

Thank you!
 
Really you'll need a separate kick output from the drum pad to the compressor sidechain input, but maybe using eq in the drum pad's whole signal would work. Otherwise it looks like you've got the idea.

If it's labeled a return it's the input. The send/return works like an insert on a mixer, so you can eq the signal going to the detection circuit, but you're going to replace the signal to the detector entirely through the return. And, no, you won't hear the sidechain input at the compressor output.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Really you'll need a separate kick output from the drum pad to the compressor sidechain input, but maybe using eq in the drum pad's whole signal would work. Otherwise it looks like you've got the idea.

If it's labeled a return it's the input. The send/return works like an insert on a mixer, so you can eq the signal going to the detection circuit, but you're going to replace the signal to the detector entirely through the return. And, no, you won't hear the sidechain input at the compressor output.
Click to expand...

Regarding using an EQ to filter the trigger on certain frequencies only, how would I go about doing that?

The problem is that I DO want to hear the kick from my drumpad eventually. How would that work then? Another output out from the drumpad?

Thanks for replying!
 
Will the drum pad only be outputing a kick sound? If not, anything that comes from the drumpad will affect the compressor.

As far as having the kick go to the sidechain AND the main mix, you would do that at the mixer. Use an aux send to feed the signal to the sidechain return. If you are really in a pinch, I guess a Y cable will do.

If you want to use an EQ to filter the signal going into the sidechain, you would simply put an EQ between the drumpad and the sidechain return.
 
Farview said:
Will the drum pad only be outputing a kick sound? If not, anything that comes from the drumpad will affect the compressor.

As far as having the kick go to the sidechain AND the main mix, you would do that at the mixer. Use an aux send to feed the signal to the sidechain return. If you are really in a pinch, I guess a Y cable will do.

If you want to use an EQ to filter the signal going into the sidechain, you would simply put an EQ between the drumpad and the sidechain return.
Click to expand...

Hello, so the only way to sidechain based on frequency would be to include an EQ along the signal path?
 
That could be a tough line to walk- separating kick from snare. Perhaps if the side chain path were extremely low passed? But you're overcoming the level of the snare vs the kick, plus a snare can have some strong low energy.

Maybe.. A slower attack on the comp might add enough time in the response to let the snare pass unaffected(? Maybe..
Still, much better off to just split the kick out to do it.
 
mixsit said:
That could be a tough line to walk- separating kick from snare. Perhaps if the side chain path were extremely low passed? But you're overcoming the level of the snare vs the kick, plus a snare can have some strong low energy.

Maybe.. A slower attack on the comp might add enough time in the response to let the snare pass unaffected(? Maybe..
Still, much better off to just split the kick out to do it.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm okay with the synth being compressed with the snare as well, as long as there's a difference. e.g. not as much ducking as the kick. That would happen with a frequency-based response, right?
 
kinleonn said:
Hello, so the only way to sidechain based on frequency would be to include an EQ along the signal path?
Click to expand...

You could pick up a cheap crossover and use that to filter out the highs. There should be lots of them on the used market now that DSPs (digital speaker processors) have been around for a while.
 
If the drumpad has left and right outputs, there might be a way to pan everything that isn't the kick to the left output. Then, you can send the left output to the PA and the right output to the sidechain return. The right output would only have kick drum in it, while the left output would have everything, including kick drum.

That would be the easiest way to make this happen, but I don't know what the drum pad is, so I'm only guessing at its capability.
 
Thanks so much for your responses everyone! Think I have a pretty good idea of how to do it with the Alesis now. But are there any other options, like directly with the main mixer, or even through software like Ableton?
 
Separate the kick and run that to a channel on the board, then use an aux to send it to the sidechain.
 
kinleonn said:
Thanks so much for your responses everyone! Think I have a pretty good idea of how to do it with the Alesis now. But are there any other options, like directly with the main mixer, or even through software like Ableton?
Click to expand...

We won't know your setup, or options, nor if someone is going to need to keep it dialed in what seems like a fairly sophisticated delicate balance to pull it off.
Any levels change, especially this..
Hey, I'm okay with the synth being compressed with the snare as well, as long as there's a difference. e.g. not as much ducking as the kick. That would happen with a frequency-based response, right?
Click to expand...
.. let alone getting it dial in in the first place, any levels change or shift, it all goes out the window. (Will you be on stage performing and running this -i.e. if a level/knob is out of cal'? (Will you know 'how much it's ducked' etc is good for out front?

I would guess you would spend some time setting it up to work it out (maybe in your software? See where it leads.
 
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