Should Tab Sites Be Legal?

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Should tab sites be legal?

  • Yes...I don't know what I'd do without them!!!!

    Votes: 175 85.0%
  • No...just go out and by the songbooks

    Votes: 15 7.3%
  • Not sure...

    Votes: 11 5.3%
  • What the heck are tabs???

    Votes: 5 2.4%

  • Total voters
    206
Yes Kubeek, it is different, legally. You can't publish it, or perform it for money without paying mechanical royalties. Don't misunderstand me, because I am not making an argument for an absolute strict enforcement of copyright law here. Not only is it impossible, but it would be stupid even if it could be done. In the real world, the larger clubs pay flat royalty fees so that cover bands can perform at the club without the club being harassed by ASCAP and BMI. Those fees pay the processing fees for my royalty checks, and the dickheads who sign them. Smaller clubs are ignored, because there isn't enough money changing hands to justify paying lawyers to bother them about it. Copyright infringement is also difficult to prove, because as stated above, almost all of popular music is derived from progressions that have been in the public domain for a long time. It's pretty hard to prove that a I-IV-V progression is derivative, unless you want the ancient Greeks to testify.

It gets more complicated, also. If I record "Beat it", and copy it note for note, to the best of my abilities, I don't need Michael Jackson's permission. I just need to pay the Harry Fox agency 9 cents for every album I sell, with a minimum of 500 copies. $45. BFD. But- if Weird Al Yankovic records "Eat it", he is not recording Michael Jackson's song. He's recording a song which is "derivative" of the original song, in other words, an adaptation. That is not covered by mechanical royalties, and he needs Jacko's express written permission, or the representatives of whoever holds the copyright. And- the suits can charge whatever userous fee they want to for that permission, or just refuse flat out to give permission. The fine for ignoring the nice lawyers is a flat $100,000 for each release (not each copy), so they could whack him for another $100,000 if the song appeared on say, "The Best of Weird Al Yankovic". See the problem? If I change one word, or one chord, is it the real thing, or is it derivative? A jury of chumps who don't know the difference between Mozart and Snoop Dog could end up making the call. As pointed out multiple times above, tab is almost never perfect, so it could be argued that it is all derivative. Original copyright law is based on the idea that all music is written, and what is written is what is protected. That has very little to do with how popular music is created or distributed today.

Pete Seeger told me something when I was 16 years old which I will never forget. He said, "Son- if you steal a song, they'll call you a plagiarist. If you steal a thousand songs, they'll call you a great American folk singer." It's all about the money. If you are making peanuts distributing or performing my music, or Elton John's, for that matter, there is zero chance that my lawyer, or Elton's, is goiing after you. So go ahead, be happy, play my song. If you are making enough money from my song to pay the lawyers to go after you, I suggest you pay the mechanical royalties, or ask me for my written permission to do it. I'll probably just give it to you, because I'm not generally a prick. My lawyer is a prick. It's what I pay him for. You can be sure of this- It is not about the little guy who wants to learn to play "Stairway to Heaven". If the lawyers are going after tab websites, it's because somebody is making money, or somebody is losing money. Yes, I do own my copyrighted written words. What part of "intellectual property" didn't you get?-Richie
 
I understand all that about playing someone´s song and making a derivative of it, the law is here very similar.

But what I don´t understand is how can anyone sue me for publishing what I hear. The same way that I can write a very detailed recension of some film, commenting what is happening in each scene, I can write a tab of what I hear in a song.
It is not publishing the song, nor a derivative, it is just my personal feeling about what is going on in that song. Or a description of the song, if you wish.
 
It gets more complicated, also. If I record "Beat it", and copy it note for note, to the best of my abilities, I don't need Michael Jackson's permission. I just need to pay the Harry Fox agency 9 cents for every album I sell, with a minimum of 500 copies. $45. BFD. But- if Weird Al Yankovic records "Eat it", he is not recording Michael Jackson's song. He's recording a song which is "derivative" of the original song, in other words, an adaptation. That is not covered by mechanical royalties, and he needs Jacko's express written permission, or the representatives of whoever holds the copyright.

Except that Weird Al is technically doing a parody and can claim protection as such. That's where copyright law starts to get grey.
 
Except that Weird Al is technically doing a parody and can claim protection as such. That's where copyright law starts to get grey.

I agree it is already a grey area. However , the claimed right to protection by parody has already been found to be legally irrelevent in regard to a copyrighted recording- or so my entertainment lawyer tells me. As I said above, I'm not a lawyer. However, Weird Al has deep pockets also, and can probably shell out 100 grand without even cracking the piggy bank. Me- I would just lose my house. No big deal.

And as far as- "I was only rendering what I heard"- it didn't work for George Harrison, and it won't work for you. It doesn't matter how or why you published 8 measures of someone's copyrighted recording. But the good news is, as I said above- George Harrison has deep pockets, and most of us don't. If I inadvertently copy 16 bars of "He's so Fine", no one will give a rat's ass about it. You can't get very much blood from this stone. I live for the day when I am doing so well that someone would actually send lawyers after me.-Richie
 
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Agreed. I believe in artists/songwriters getting their fair share for their work... but when will this end? What's next, if you play a CD at your home and you have friends over, you have to pay public performace fees? Whew, Garth Brooks tried a few years back, wanting to collect royalites from USED CD's that were being sold at garage sales..etc. Can't these fools see that if their music is so popular that people are wanting to play it themselves is because someone, most likely the person wanting to learn the tune, has already bought the CD..?

Garth should pay royalties to Chevrolet everytime he sells a used pickup truck, royalties to Takamine everytime he sells a used guitar and royalties to the original contractor everytime he sells one of his houses.
 
this shouldnt even be an argument! tab sites save those of us who are not able to play songs by ear. most importantly- i WOULD in most cases go out and buy the songbooks for the music i want to play, but unfortunately a very low percentage of bands i listen to have their music printed out and in book form available for purchase. so yes, tab sites should be legal!
 
this shouldnt even be an argument! tab sites save those of us who are not able to play songs by ear. most importantly- i WOULD in most cases go out and buy the songbooks for the music i want to play, but unfortunately a very low percentage of bands i listen to have their music printed out and in book form available for purchase. so yes, tab sites should be legal!

You have this wrong though. Tab sites aren't saving you; they're enabling you. It's the reason you haven't learned how to pick out things by ear, and a good ear is the most important factor in being a good musician, hands down.
 
Hmmm... I am pretty good, but I can't pick out something like DP's 'Lazy' by ear, and I probably never will. There is a breaking point where frustration decreases the amount of playing, which doesn't serve any good purpose. I actually think Youtube is becoming the modern day equivalent of tab sites, except you get to watch someone play a song, and I can tell if they are playing it right. I learned a couple of songs that way, and I am not ashamed to admit it.
 
Hmmm... I am pretty good, but I can't pick out something like DP's 'Lazy' by ear, and I probably never will. There is a breaking point where frustration decreases the amount of playing, which doesn't serve any good purpose. I actually think Youtube is becoming the modern day equivalent of tab sites, except you get to watch someone play a song, and I can tell if they are playing it right. I learned a couple of songs that way, and I am not ashamed to admit it.

I'll bet you could if you tried to take it note by note. Keep your hand on the pause button and pause it after every note if you have to until you get the whole thing figured out.

Music is like a language. Notes are like words, and phrases are like sentences. You learn to speak by being surrounded by language and hearing things over and over again. Your music ear develops the same way. The more you listen carefully and figure out how to mimic things on your instrument, the easier it becomes.

Eventually, you reach a point where you only need to hear a typical pop song once, and you know all the chords without even picking up your guitar.

Solos are the same way. Lots of licks are recycled for every genre (different ones depending on the genre), and the more you transcribe, the more you'll immediately recognize without even having your guitar on you.
 
You have this wrong though. Tab sites aren't saving you; they're enabling you. It's the reason you haven't learned how to pick out things by ear, and a good ear is the most important factor in being a good musician, hands down.

ok let me put emphasis on how there is no way to find/purchase 90% of what tab sites have to offer. i could understand how these sites are holding people back from learning to be better musicians, but that shouldnt be a legality issue... or should it? :cool::rolleyes::cool:
 
Once lowered yourself to playing other peoples music, it's just the same are you breaking the law with tabs or not.

Same thing as selling cheap copies of paintings..
Or buying the Japanese copy of an established piece of machinery.

..Or a pirated CD instead of the real one...lawfulness of that too, is under some debate.:D:D:p:D:D
 
the gov. is going WAY out of line with this. Its all just soo stupid. I live in the us and i think our government is completely rediculouse. its not just this, its with everything. They call us a free country but we really have the most anal government compared to everyone else.
 
ok let me put emphasis on how there is no way to find/purchase 90% of what tab sites have to offer. i could understand how these sites are holding people back from learning to be better musicians, but that shouldnt be a legality issue... or should it? :cool::rolleyes::cool:

LOL ... no ... the legality issue is that it's a copyright infringement!!!
 
the gov. is going WAY out of line with this. Its all just soo stupid. I live in the us and i think our government is completely rediculouse. its not just this, its with everything. They call us a free country but we really have the most anal government compared to everyone else.

Wow ... that's the most severely misspelled "ridiculous" I've ever seen! :)
 
i think they should be legal............i mean...............some people learning how to play have no clue on how to learn a song by ear.....and i dont think that a small tab by some kid is going to hurt the artists popularity
 
i think they should be legal............i mean...............some people learning how to play have no clue on how to learn a song by ear.....and i dont think that a small tab by some kid is going to hurt the artists popularity

Yes there are people just starting out that can't figure out songs by ear. I was one of those kids in the late 80s. What did we do? We asked our friends. If they didn't know, we'd buy the sheet music.
 
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