Should I get a mixer

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kikling

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Im a kid and am new to the music world:
i do PC recording with cool edit pro. I have a standard sound card (one input) and I play all my instruments on each track at differeent times. Meaning i record my guitar on one track then record after that a bass track on a different track and so on. Well since im doing this myself, i have no one to help me with recording. i dont like doing the panning and volume controls after recording because it nevers sounds smooth. I know if i get a mixer i could do real time panns and volume, but the problem is i cant work the mixer while im playing the instrument. is there anyway i could use the mixer after the track is recorded dry (just recording it without doing anything to it) then do the panning and still have good quality? and please dont suggest recording from my speakers to the mixer than record again because i dont have good monitors, just computer speakers and doing that would lower the quality. Unless there is a way that will keep the quality. Thanks. hope someone could answer this. Im thinking of buying a cheap behringer mx602a, mx802a or mx1604.


[This message has been edited by kikling (edited 06-18-2000).]
 
I typed out this giant reply, and went back and split it up. Here's what I would do in your situation:

Wait on the mixer. You WILL need one, probably soon, but wait until you're playing with other folk. When you refer to your "cheap sound card," I can only assume it has one or two stereo outputs--which will only play your mix, and not your individual tracks. You mentioned the Behringer 6,8, and 12 tracks, yes? With most sound cards pre-installed, you will only get 2 tracks (left and right), so the mixer isn't the solution.

The REAL problem is that Cool Edit Pro is more of an audio production suite, not a music production suite. We use it at work to make the commercials you hear on the radio. Anyway, as an AUDIO program, it's great--but better for mastering music or playing around with tracks that were originally recorded using a multitrack machine.

I would suggest getting a tape-based multitrack machine. It may seem that you're taking a step backward away from the computer, but that's the good part. When you do get around to different gigs and such, you can just pick it up and take it with you. Then, when your tracks are on tape (or minidisc, harddrive, whatever), you can either put each track into CEP individually; mix at the multitrack and put it into CEP stereo; or buy a Darla or Echo or some other multi-input device for your computer and run all the tracks in at once. Personally, I just mix at the multitrack (consider the MD8--you can get one used for about $800, and it's digital. Pretty easy to use, too) and stuff it into CEP for fading, normalization, and to see it graphically (I still think that's the best thing about computers... <sigh> ).

So, a mixer will run about half of a multitrack, but only solve a small portion of your present (and future) problems. Bite the bullet, break the piggy bank, and buy a Portastudio or MD8. You can also use them as mixers, in a way (but this is like using your stereo as a pre-amp... it "works," but it doesn't work).
 
Okay. Here's the second part of that large post I was talking about:

Wow. I get this mental vision of a 10-year old learning these mystical black arts. You must be the richest kid on the block (or your dad is George Martin or something). I don't know how old you are, but your posts and questions are very good (they get to the point), and even if you're quite a bit older, well, stick with it. One of these guys (R.E.?) might sponsor you or hire you one of these days.... If I thought I'd make money doing this, well, I'd sure hire you! Anyway, I think that others here at HR.com are impressed with your zealousy. I sure am!

(we're also impressed with your allowance. wish i had the gear you did back then!)
 
I dont like telling people this but i never bought cool edit pro. I got it from a friend. Please dont hold that against me. And actually, I'm waiting to buy a computer that I will get in the summer from my dad (no. hes not geroge martin). Its not that special of a computer. Since i cant do my recording now, ive been spending my time researching everything about pc recording so when it comes to the day that i could actually do it, i will be ready. But please, I realy need different answers to this post because i cant get a physical mulittrack system. Thanks
P.S- Im 14
P.P.S- What do zealousy mean?
 
Zeal is energy and enthusiasm.

Kelly, why is CEP not so good for tracking music? What's better?
 
Yeah, I thought that might come up. I ended up automating last night's shift to delve into CEP's "hidden secrets" (scripts, multitrack, etc.), and discovered otherwise. My basis for calling CEP an audio production suite instead of music production suite is based around the nature of my work experience with it.

(Drive a Humvee on land all the time and you'll wonder how well it would work in the water, you know?)

So I tried some multitrack recording last night, track by track, and was impressed with CEP. I didn't realize that we could record straight to multitrack, as opposed to running it through singletrack "mode" first.

I suppose CEP is as good a program as any for music production, too. I've only used it in the stereo single track mode when recording, though.

Has anyone tried it with a multi-input card like a Darla? That's probably the true test. I don't have one yet, and have no idea how it performs when recording multiple tracks. Dobro, do you? I'd sure like to know if it is equally capable...

Humble, humble, humble...

-K.
 
Yeah, Zeal. I was trying to think of words like "zealousness" and "zealability."

hehehe

afterthought: we get so caught up in our expensive little gadgets that we forget the basics sometimes. like "zeal." dig it.
 
My take on your original question, Kikling:

To use a mixer outside of your computer, you will need either more soundcards or a multi-output soundcard replacement. I think the replacement might be the best (or get the multi-out and designate it within CEP, and let your computer games and applications use the regular soundcard).

I don't know how many soundcards you can put into a computer at once. This might be the most thrifty approach, as you can add two tracks at a time (or one stereo track) as you obtain the cards. But you'll be limited by the number of expansion slots available on your computer.

Either way, you'll then be able to

1) Use Multi-input.

2) Use Multi-output.

For your original question, on how to utilize a mixer to fade/pan/eq with knobs as opposed to mouse, you'll use the multi-output. Put your tracks in one at a time, and then play them all back using different channels of your soundcard (presuming you use a multi-track i/o soundcard) or by designating different soundcards in the multi-screen. (I think that's what the two numbered box-buttons are for, and why they default to "1" on each box--one is for input designation, the other for output.)

Anyway, play 'em all at once and mix at your new mixer. Of course, this involves buying both new soundcards and mixer, which brings us back to...

Look into a standalone multitrack.

One more thought--while you're getting used to multitracking, continue to simply run your single tracks into CEP. Later on, when you DO get a mixer and soundcards, you can "knob" the sound where you want it.

One LAST thought--Anyone know if a digital mixer has connectivity via serial/parallel/firewire/whatever to computer? That would eliminate the multi-output card (if CEP supports such a monster).

Done thinking. Promise.

-K.
 
Thanks very much for the replys.
i really know alot about using a mixer with multi input sound cards and stuff. but what i said was:
<is there anyway i could use the mixer after the track is recorded dry (just recording it without doing anything to it) then do the panning and still have good quality?>
What i do is record one track at a time, so i wouldnt really need a multi sound card, and even if i did have a multi sound card, i still wouldnt be able to do the mixing while im playing the instruments. Can someone help me with that question?
 
Damn, dude! I can't get it right!

Sure, you could do that, but I don't see how it would be practical. If this is how you'd rather pan, then go for it, but you'll only be able to pull it off one track at a time (and panning in relation to other tracks seems a necessity, in my book).

The biggest problem outside of this would be the addition of noise to your track. But if your levels are right on input and output, it won't add much noise at all, depending on the mixer. I think Behringer reverse-engineers Mackies, so noise shouldn't be that big of a problem.

My 2 cents: tweak each track in the computer. Seems like a lot of hassle otherwise.

Did we get the question right this time?
 
its just i dont know how to pan using cool edit pro. All i know how to do is select a portion of the track and then choose pan left pan right. Can someone tell me how to do it so it sounds like a guy is twisting the knob as he is hearing the track. I dont mean that you hear the guy twisting it, i mean that some guy is controlling the track as he hears it. i need it to be smooth. Thats the same kind of question i have for volume. i want to be able to control the levels of parts of the tracks. is there a way i could do the volume and pan afterwards using my keyboard? like pressing the space bar to raise the volume after I hear the track. or use the x key to start to pan left and the m to start to pan right. I hope you understand this question.

[This message has been edited by kikling (edited 06-21-2000).]
 
I have never used CEP at all. I use Sonic Foundry's Acid and Vegas for my recording/multi-tracking. With both of these programs, you can add envelopes for volume and panning. This way you can control the levels after the track is recorded. I would THINK CEP has something like this, though I could be wrong.

All my stuff is done on the computer. I do use a Mackie 1202 mixer, but only record one track at a time. You can check it out here:
www.mp3.com/TheShadyNeighbor

You can here individual tracks fading in and out on certain things. Part of the beauty of computer recording is that you can "automate" your mix with these envelopes. Check CEP's help file, and it is likely there is an envelope feature.
 
Kikling, as far as I know, you can achieve smooth pans and fades with CEP - radio guys do it all the time and swear by it. You know how CEP does the pan and volume thing, right? The blue and green line that runs through the track? You just click on the line and drag it to where you want (for example, to the other side of the track, which would make the sound pan all the way to the other side, right?). You can put as many clicks on the pan line as you like. Same thing with the volume envelope. Then you save your changes, and you're home.

And as far as I know, you can't achieve this in playback using keyboard commands.
 
where is the green/blue light? i cant see it. is it under multitrack or wave? Thanks
 
Hey, Kikling--

Go to multitrack view. To the left of each track lie five small boxes and two larger rectangles. The "P" one is your pan box, and if you right click on it, you'll get a pan pot. Same for the "V" (volume) rectangle. Make your changes, click OK, you're in business. I think you can do this realtime.

If you want to create automated pans, fades, etc, then click on the appropriate box in your tool box (if you don't have these in your tool box, then right click up there and add it. A good display will show all of the tools, and they come in handy...). Then click on the wave you want to mess around with, and you're set.

If you do BOTH of these methods, keep in mind that the automated stuff might be in relation to you original pan settings (the "P" rectangle on the left).

Dig it.
 
hey kikling - just want to let you know that i feel for you, im only 15 (and turned it 12 days ago) and I also am getting into recording(thats why i'm here)

speaking of - i am looking at getting a multi-input sound card for my comp. I'd like 4 to 8 inputs but could probably do with 2. Also, sadly, i would need a mixer to use as a preamp for mics (to get their signal up to line level) does anyone have a recommendation for a mixer and sound card i could get?

my budget is < $500

and

my comp is a 500mHZ with 128 megs of RAM and about a 11-12 gig HD.

Thanks in advance!
pj
 
hey kikling - just want to let you know that i feel for you, im only 15 (and turned it 12 days ago) and I also am getting into recording(thats why i'm here)

speaking of - i am looking at getting a multi-input sound card for my comp. I'd like 4 to 8 inputs but could probably do with 2. Also, sadly, i would need a mixer to use as a preamp for mics (to get their signal up to line level) does anyone have a recommendation for a mixer and sound card i could get?

my budget is < $500

and

my comp is a 500mHZ with 128 megs of RAM and about a 11-12 gig HD.

Thanks in advance!
pj
 
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