Setting up reverbs & delays with analog mixer help.

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WIZEMONEY

WIZEMONEY

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Hi guys,

I am confused as I wish to set up my reverbs and delays with my Tascam M-312B, can anyone help me with the inputs, outputs and cable connectors to make work?

I have 4 signal processors I want to set up as standard. I think I have one unit figured out but then the others I'm confused where to add them on the console IN/OUT and the connectors needed!!

1. Roland SDE 2000 - ( I think i got this right let me know if i'm wrong..
2. Yamaha SPX90 - (Mono Input and Stereo Output (A & AB)
3. Alesis MIDIVERB I - (Stereo Outputs In & Out)
4. Alesis MIDIVERB II - (Stereo Outputs In & Out)

SEE PIC ATTCHED
EXTERNAL FX IN:OUT.webp
 
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So I know you double-posted this question; here and over in the Tascam forum. It’s best to just post in one place. It’s harder for you and members to track the conversation in multiple places and also confusing for future generations to get all the info if somebody comes seeking similar info. So, just a suggestion.

And here’s the main thing to wrap your head around…with your 4 effects boxes that you want to have access to all the time, two with mono input, two with stereo input (though I argue unless you have a stereo source to process there’s no benefit to connecting both inputs, and BTW some of those older Alesis effects boxes are not true stereo input anyway…check that out…I have some of these…), and all with stereo output, you need 6 output channels (2 mono and 2 stereo) to feed said effects boxes, and 8 input channels (4 stereo), to return the outputs of said effects boxes to your console. I know I’m stating the obvious, but I want to do that because no matter how you connect things and no matter what output busses or channels you use and return channel pathways you use, you can’t get around that basic fact.

Now let’s look at the M-312B…it has 3 AUX buss channels, period: 1 pre-fade (AUX 1, and for send-type effects like reverbs and delays pre-fade is far less desirable and in many cases just won’t work), 1 selectable pre/post-fade (AUX 2), and 1 fixed post-fade (EFF). You need 2 more sends and they need to be stereo at least if you’re stuck on feeding the Alesis boxes stereo signal. And on the return side of things the M-300 series has two mono effect returns (EFFECT RTN 1 and EFFECT RTN 2). You need 6 more channels of returns.

For people with need for more returns than their console has dedicated returns most people use input channels. I don’t know if that works for you, to use half of your channel strips as effect returns, but that’s the only real clear option for you if you want all these effect boxes in use at all times. You could also return one box using the STEREO SUB IN jacks which puts the effect box output right before the main STEREO L-R fader. It is best to connect an effect box that has an output level control so you have some control of the mix of the effect box output and the main mix. You have very little flexibility using the SUB IN jacks as a return, but it’s an option. Another option, if you are not using your TAPE IN jacks for multitrack returns or other sources, you can connect effect box outputs to those, and then in the MONITOR mixer section source those TAPE IN jacks in the monitor mixer channels by pressing the respective TAPE RTN switches, and by also pressing the associated ON switches and using the LEVEL and PAN controls you can discretely assign those TAPE IN jacks to the main STEREO buss.

As to your need for 4 more send buss channels (2 stereo…again if it was me I’d forget about stereo and make it 2 mono sends), your only other options, if you want to use summing busses, is to use your PGM groups as effects sends. Assign inputs to PGM groups, and connect the respective PGM out jacks to your effect box inputs. Just make sure whatever PGM group channels you use this way you make sure no monitor mixer channels are sourced to the group and ON switches are depressed or you’ll send your effect sends to the group out jacks as well as to the main STEREO BUSS. Also, you can, if there is a single channel you want effected, use its DIRECT OUT jack to feed the effect box.

You may also want to consider incorporating a patchbay if you don’t actually need all effect boxes live at the same time all the time, and rather have everything hooked up to the patchbay for convenience patching.

Another idea for additional returns: you can also get an external line mixer, like any 8x2 line mixer (such as a Tascam M-1 or M-1B) to return all the effects boxes and sum to stereo, and then bring that back to the console using the EFFECT RTN channels.

Again, this may all seem complicated, but these are just options for how to use your console to accomplish what you want even though it wasn’t necessarily designed to support what it is you want to do. If you’re not using your PGM groups for other things and you only need 6 input channel strips for sources and can use the other 6 for effect returns then you’re set and that’s the simplest way. My Studer console has 6 mono AUX sends and 2 stereo AUX sends…10 channels and each switchable pre/post fade, but I have more effects boxes and cue feed needs than that so I have to pick and choose or use other outputs…but there are 4 dedicated stereo returns in the console’s current configuration, and plenty of stereo input channels so my problems are less there. But there are always some sort of limitations and if your demand for inputs channels, output busses and returns completely exceeds your needs with the current console then the only solution, outside of external submixers, is to get a different console. Hopefully some of what I’ve shared above gives you some ideas. You have options but it depends on what else you have connected to the console and how you are presently using the various inputs and outputs.
 
Hey Sweetbeats,

Much appreciation for your explanation. (and yes, I will not double post topics from now on!)

I have read and understood 70% of your feedback. I should have mentioned that I have 72 channels of In/Outs via 3x Patch-bays. I have all the Ins & outs of my Midi hardware synths, samplers, drum machines, mixer direct outs (12), Line inputs (12), my audio interfaces (16ch In/Outs) and all 4 effects boxes patched up.

The goal is to print 12 simultaneous tracks into Protools HD at once and then re-mixing those tracks again simultaneously (from PT) via the mixer back into PT as a 2 track Stereo mix (Mixer stereo outs into the audio Interface)

I have not connected the PG outputs or the Tape inputs to the patch-bay. Just the 12 Line Ins /12 Directs Outs (Patchable) and the Stereo Outs ( 2 Track master). However, I will use the 4 PG in Mix downs etc.

Also, it's not that I want to use the 4 effects boxes all at the same time (Probably 2 units - 1 Delay, 1 Reverb). I just want to know which outs and Ins (send & returns) on the mixer to use and which cables to buy then connect them to the patch bay. This way I can swap between effect units via patch bay. I saw both RCA & TRS got lost as patch bay has TRS Jacks..

I will be satisfied to configure the Outs & Ins (send & returns) from the mixer (m-312b) for the use of 2 effects boxes to the patch bay by which I can use any 2 of the four boxes at a time, as for the stereo outs of the effects boxes (which are all ready connect to the patch-bay, maybe I could use Y splitter cables!! Both Alesis also has L & R inputs, the other 2 units have Mono inputs...

Another thing, the RCA inputs on the mixer for AUX, rca to trs is this an issue?

AUX.webp
 
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I’d get a simple patchbay and hook your sends, returns, and effects in and outs into the patchbay. Now you can put any rack effect into any channel through the aux sends and returns. Each channel has a 1/4” insert which you can use as well. Those would be a send and return on a single Tip/Ring/Sleeve plug.
 
WIZEMONEY said:
Hey Sweetbeats,

Much appreciation for your explanation. (and yes, I will not double post topics from now on!)

I have read and understood 70% of your feedback. I should have mentioned that I have 72 channels of In/Outs via 3x Patch-bays. I have all the Ins & outs of my Midi hardware synths, samplers, drum machines, mixer direct outs (12), Line inputs (12), my audio interfaces (16ch In/Outs) and all 4 effects boxes patched up.

The goal is to print 12 simultaneous tracks into Protools HD at once and then re-mixing those tracks again simultaneously (from PT) via the mixer back into PT as a 2 track Stereo mix (Mixer stereo outs into the audio Interface)

I have not connected the PG outputs or the Tape inputs to the patch-bay. Just the 12 Line Ins /12 Directs Outs (Patchable) and the Stereo Outs ( 2 Track master). However, I will use the 4 PG in Mix downs etc.

Also, it's not that I want to use the 4 effects boxes all at the same time (Probably 2 units - 1 Delay, 1 Reverb). I just want to know which outs and Ins (send & returns) on the mixer to use and which cables to buy then connect them to the patch bay. This way I can swap between effect units via patch bay. I saw both RCA & TRS got lost as patch bay has TRS Jacks..

I will be satisfied to configure the Outs & Ins (send & returns) from the mixer (m-312b) for the use of 2 effects boxes to the patch bay by which I can use any 2 of the four boxes at a time, as for the stereo outs of the effects boxes (which are all ready connect to the patch-bay, maybe I could use Y splitter cables!! Both Alesis also has L & R inputs, the other 2 units have Mono inputs...

Another thing, the RCA inputs on the mixer for AUX, rca to trs is this an issue?

View attachment 140731
Click to expand...
You don’t need to worry about TS vs TRS at your patchbays. All of the 1/4” inputs and outputs are unbalanced TS jacks on the M-300 series consoles, and the patchbay will work fine with either TRS or TS plugs. However, as always, you want to verify the equipment you are patching to those inputs and outputs at the patchbay are fine with the unbalanced sources and loads respectively. If you are connecting unbalanced sources and loads from the M-312B to balanced loads and sources of your outboard gear you want to consult the manuals for those devices to verify if there is anything special you need to do with your interconnects. Most modern stuff is electronically balanced using a differential type circuit and it doesn’t care if it interfaces balanced or unbalanced signals, but some equipment does care and in the worst case if you connect it incorrectly you can damage the outboard equipment. So I recommend you double check. If memory serves, the 4 effect boxes you’ve listed are either unbalanced I/O or don’t require any particular considerations when interfacing unbalanced sources/loads.

In your case if you just typically need 2 mono sends and two stereo returns for effects, if it was me I would use the AUX 2 buss for one of them (switched to post-fade in all cases), and the EFF buss for the other…that’s your two mono post-fade sends, and then if you’re not using the TAPE IN jacks for anything, if it was me, I’d setup TAPE IN 5~8 as a pair of stereo effect returns…so that’s the bottom row of channels in the monitor mixer section, which are labeled 5, 6, 7 & 8. Make sure the TAPE RTN switches for all 4 of these channels are in the down/latched position, which sources the monitor mixer channel to the respectively numbered TAPE IN jack instead of the PGM group. Set the PAN controls as follows:

Monitor channel 5: hard L
Monitor channel 6: hard R
Monitor channel 7: hard L
Monitor channel 8: hard R

This sets up each pair (channels 5 & 6 and channels 7 & 8) as a stereo pair. And then set the LEVEL controls for each channel to taste, though if you are using a pair of channels as a stereo pair you’ll want to try and match each pair of level knobs as close as possible. Then all you need to do to assign your effect return channels to the main STEREO buss is latch the respective ON switches for each of the 4 monitor mixer channels. You can also monitor your effect returns using the AUX 4 knobs and selecting AUX 4 in the monitor select switchrack. Leaving the POST switches in the up position allows you to monitor your effects returns pre monitor channel LEVEL control, latching the POST switches is post LEVEL control. Both the pre and post source switch positions are post ON switch, so keep that in mind…if you want to monitor your effects returns by themselves using AUX 4 they’ll be live to the main buss regardless because to monitor using AUX 4 you have to have the ON switches latched. If it was me I’d probably modify the AUX 4 pre/post switch to source the signal ahead of the ON switch in pre mode so it could act like a PFL circuit and you could monitor without having the returns live to the main buss. But I digress. You can do the same thing just by setting the source to pre and turning the LEVEL controls down…that just seems less elegant/convenient, but that’s just me.

And yes you can use just two TAPE IN jacks and still use EFFECT RTN 1 & 2, but if it was me I’d like the return controls to be grouped together at the monitor mixer, and also have the additional ON control and AUX faculty of the monitor mixer. And then EFFECT RTN 1 & 2 inputs are available for quick patch-in of periodic mono sources or a stereo source…like a glorified set of SUB IN jacks.

And why use TAPE IN 5~8 as opposed to TAPE IN 1~4 for effect returns you ask? Well because then you’ve got monitor mixer channels 1~4 still available to sum PGM groups 1~4 to the main buss if you’re doing any sub-mixing, OR as a way to monitor your PGM groups if you are NOT sending them to the main buss but using them as feeds for something else…because the PGM out jacks are always live regardless of the monitor channel ON switch. And you can setup cue mixes or even additional send busses using them and monitor using AUX 3. Yes you can monitor them via the SOLO buss using the AFL switches too, but that doesn’t allow you to setup cue feeds and such of your signals assigned to the PGM groups. There’s a tremendous amount of flexibility in the group and monitor section, and if monitor mixer channels 1~4 are going to used in conjunction with PGM groups 1~4, it makes more sense to use the same numbered monitor mixer channels with the 1~4 numbered groups. So that’s why I’d use monitor mixer channels 5~8 as my returns.
 
HI Sweetbeats,

I have done exactly as you would have done and it works like a charm..... You are the MAN.

Much appreciated for all the help and I wish you all the best my friend.

Thanks
 
Scott Baxendale said:
I’d get a simple patchbay and hook your sends, returns, and effects in and outs into the patchbay. Now you can put any rack effect into any channel through the aux sends and returns. Each channel has a 1/4” insert which you can use as well. Those would be a send and return on a single Tip/Ring/Sleeve plug.
Click to expand...
Silly question if you don'y mind. I'm looking to patch my PGM Inserts to a patch bay. Im a right (or wrong) in using a Y splitter cable and connecting the single Tip/Ring/Sleeve plug jack to the mixer insert and then the two other jacks (RED & BLACK) to the patch-bay.

So the Red is the output (Send) top row on the patchbay
an the Black is the input (return) bottom row on the patchbay

is this correct way of doing it?
 
WIZEMONEY said:
Silly question if you don'y mind. I'm looking to patch my PGM Inserts to a patch bay. Im a right (or wrong) in using a Y splitter cable and connecting the single Tip/Ring/Sleeve plug jack to the mixer insert and then the two other jacks (RED & BLACK) to the patch-bay.

So the Red is the output (Send) top row on the patchbay
an the Black is the input (return) bottom row on the patchbay

is this correct way of doing it?
Click to expand...
Yes. A insert cable will have a tip/ring/sleeve 1/4” plug in one end and two tip/sleeve plugs on the other end that goes into the patch bay. Now you have a separate input in the patch bay for the send and return.
 
Scott Baxendale said:
Yes. A insert cable will have a tip/ring/sleeve 1/4” plug in one end and two tip/sleeve plugs on the other end that goes into the patch bay. Now you have a separate input in the patch bay for the send and return.
Click to expand...
Thanks buddy. Now I can order the cables. Best regards
 
Agreed. Just make sure the patchbay is normalling type so when there is nothing plugged into the front jacks of the bay the top and bottom plugged in the back are connected together. This ensures, even with nothing patched at the front of the bay, signal still passes through the PGM channel.
 
sweetbeats said:
Agreed. Just make sure the patchbay is normalling type so when there is nothing plugged into the front jacks of the bay the top and bottom plugged in the back are connected together. This ensures, even with nothing patched at the front of the bay, signal still passes through the PGM channel.
Click to expand...
Yes Sir... I have the Samson S patch plus. (y)
 
sweetbeats said:
Agreed. Just make sure the patchbay is normalling type so when there is nothing plugged into the front jacks of the bay the top and bottom plugged in the back are connected together. This ensures, even with nothing patched at the front of the bay, signal still passes through the PGM channel.
Click to expand...
Sir, my VU Bulbs are blown and trying to source the original type or close too. Any recommendations. ?
 
sweetbeats said:
These are what I use…have used them in all manner of Teac/Tascam meters as well as other makes including my Audio Technica AT-RMX64. Granted you have to buy 20 at a time or more, but with my repair side business that makes sense for me:

https://www.jkllamps.com/incandescent/axialleadlamps/DA513
Click to expand...
Sir, Im in London...

Are these good?

www.ebay.co.uk

Axial Style Miniature Lamp Bulb 8V 100 mA With Leads Fit VU Meters Reel to Reel | eBay UK

New 8v 100ma axial warm white incandescent light bulb.
www.ebay.co.uk
 
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