Setting up my first home recording studio

C

Confidenta

New member
Hi all!

I'm new here, and I've been thinking about setting up a home recording studio for some time now.

So before I become a student (again) in the upcoming fall, I think it's time to make it happen.

I am going to record me playing the acoustic guitar, without vocals (can't sing)

So here is the setup:

Mixer
Qty: 1
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/480536-REG/Edirol_Roland_M_10DX_M_10DX_10_Channel_Digital.html


Mic Preamp
Qty: 2

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/422065-REG/Behringer_MIC800_MIC800_Preamp.html

Mic's

Qty: 1

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/598453-REG/Behringer_C_4_C_4_Stereo_Matched_Pair.html


Cables
Qty: 1

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/373074-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8311_25_AT_8311_1_4_T_S_Male.html

Qty: 1
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=158492&is=REG

Is this a good beginner setup? What can I expect from this?

Want to record in stereo.

Thanks.
 
Greetings Confidenta! The components you have listed will work, if you have a computer soundcard with a S/PDIF input. Most people don't. Others will immediately jump on you for considering Behringer equipment, which is cheap for reasons that will become clear. I think you are on the wrong track. For your stated purposes, you do not need a mixer, and you do not need separate preamps. First the mixer has preamps built into it that are basically the same as the preamps you have listed. What you need is a two channel USB audio interface. It will contain the 2 preamps you need, and will bypass your (almost certainly) poor computer soundcard. Most are powered by the USB port on any computer. Then you need 2 mics, 2 XLR to XLR cables, and one USB cable. I note that you are in Norway, so I understand that equipment prices will not be the same. I'm afraid they are higher for you in many cases than in the USA.
Here are some suggestions for the interface:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=43735&Category=Audio_Interfaces

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=40819&Category=Audio_Interfaces

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=40938&Category=Audio_Interfaces

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60669&Category=Audio_Interfaces

Personally, I prefer the Line 6 and M-Audio units, for their preamps, mostly.

As far as mics go, there are tons of better mics I could suggest, but not in that price range. I will step out of my usual stance here and suggest that for a cheap small diaphragm pair, the C-4's are not that bad. Furthermore, a stereo pair of small diaphragm condensers is what I would choose, also. So if that is all your budget will support, go for it. I will, however suggest some pricier alternatives, which I believe are better mics:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=42686&Category=Microphones

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=11336&Category=Microphones

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=6679&Category=Microphones

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=10842&Category=Microphones

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=31442&Category=Microphones

Given your European location, and your relatively small budget, I would probably choose the AKG Perceptions. I hope this helps. Note that the biggest problems with your selections is that they are redundant (the mixer and the preamps do the same thing), and your choices don't give you direct access to most computers for recording and processing. By the way, I don't know about in Europe, but in the US, Behringer C-4 seems to be discontinued, and replaced by the C-2, as below:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=41707&Category=Microphones

Even the slightly more expensive Behringer B5 might be a better choice:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=21014&Category=Microphones

That gives you the choice of omnidirectional or cardioid capsules, and at least here, come with 2 mic cables. Good luck. Let us know what you choose, and how it works out.-Richie
 
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My obligatory standard reply-for-newbies that I keep in Wordpad so this is just a paste (I don't want to re-type this all the time):

First off, immediately get a good beginner recording book (spend $20 before spending hundred$/thousand$) that shows you what you need to get started and how to hook everything up in your studio:
Home Recording for Musicians by Jeff Strong - $15
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/04...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0470385421
(Wish I'd had that when I started; would have saved me lots of money and time and grief)
You can also pick up this book in most any Borders or Barnes&Noble in the Music Books section!

Another good one is: Recording Guitar and Bass by Huw Price
http://www.amazon.com/Recording-Gui...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215734124&sr=1-1
(I got my copy at a place called Half-Price Books for $6!!)

And you can get a FREE subscription to TapeOp magazine at www.tapeop.com

Barnes&Noble or Borders are great places to start --- they have recording books and you can go get a snack or coffee and read them for FREE! Don't pass by a good recording book --- this is a VERY technical hobby and you REALLY want to start a reference library!!!

Good Newbie guides that also explains all the basics and have good tips:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/page/computermusic?entry=free_beginner_pdfs
http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/168409-tips-techniques.html

21 Ways To Assemble a Recording Rig: http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm

Also Good Info: http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm

Other recording books: http://musicbooksplus.com/home-recording-c-31.html

Still using a built-in soundcard?? Unfortunately, those are made with less than $1 worth of chips for beeps, boops and light gaming (not to mention cheapness for the manufacturer) and NOT quality music production.
#1 Rule of Recording: You MUST replace the built-in soundcard.
Here's a good guide and tested suggestions that WORK: http://www.tweakheadz.com/soundcards_for_the_home_studio.htm
(you'll want to bookmark and read through all of Tweak's Guide while you're there...)
Another good article: Choosing an audio interface - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/articles/audiointerfaces.htm


Plenty of software around to record for FREE to start out on:

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net (multi-track with VST support)
Wavosaur: http://www.wavosaur.com/ (a stereo audio file editor with VST support)\
Kristal: http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/
Other freebies and shareware: www.hitsquad.com/smm

Another great option is REAPER at http://www.cockos.com/reaper/ (It's $50 but runs for free until you get guilty enough to pay for it...)
I use Reaper and highly reccomend it...

Music Notation and MIDI recording: Melody Assistant ($25) and Harmony Assistant ($80) have the power of $600 notation packages - http://myriad-online.com
Demo you can try on the website.

And you can go out to any Barnes&Noble or Borders and pick up "Computer Music" magazine - they have a full FREE studio suite in every issue's DVD, including sequencers, plugins and tons of audio samples. (November 2006 they gave away a full copy of SamplitudeV8SE worth $150, November 2007-on the racks Dec in the US- they gave away SamplitudeV9SE and July 2009 issue they put out Samplitude10SE. FREE. It pays to watch 'em for giveaways...)
 
A whole new setup, and bit more knowledge

Wow, this helps so much! ;)

I was a bit confused at first, like, whether I should get a mixer or not and so on. But now I understand a bit more.

So, to the setup.

I was checking out the different products that Richie listed for me (thanks!), and what price range I should be in. Now that I can skip the mixer etc, I can put more money into the things that really matters to make a good recording, like the mics.
Here's a suggestion:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/439187-REG/Lexicon_LAMBDA_Lambda_Studio_Desktop_Recording.html

Two of these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/300872-REG/CAD_GXL1200_GXL_1200_Instrument_Microphone.html

2 XLR to XLR cables + two 1/4" cables

A good beginner set up? : )

You are absolutely right my friend, equipment, food, cars, clothes, generally everything is more expensive here in Norway.. But i'm ordering from B&H Photo Video superstore in the US, so it's ok.

So let me know what you guys think!
 
Yo Confidenta! That setup will work, but as far as I know, you don't need 1/4" cables. The mics will connect by XLR, and the interface will connect by USB, bypassing your soundcard, and essentially replacing it for the purposes of recording. Maybe I'm missing something. What do you believe the purpose of the 1/4" cables is? The interface will convert the analog signal to digital format.-Richie
 
Well, it may work OK, but if you are recording acoustic guitar, just use mics, and let the nice wooden guitar be what it is. If you are using the stereo for playback, don't use a "Y" cable. You are recording in stereo for a reason. You will need (2) 1/4" to RCA cables. If you use a "Y" cable with a 1/4" TS (tip-sleeve) cable, it will send the same signal to both sides. If your guitar actually has stereo output (mine does), you would use a 1/4" TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) to 2 RCA's. Acoustic guitar pickups are usually used on stage, not for recording. -Richie
 
I'm gonna be using just the mics to record, and like you said, let the nice wooden guitar do it's thing.

I don't think my guitar has stereo output, It's a Martin DXME with Fishman pickup.

Can you please send me a link to a cable that will be perfect for just to be playing at my stereo? This has really nothing to do with the recording part. I haven't had the chance to buy myself a good amp yet..

You said: "You will need (2) 1/4" to RCA cables." I guess you mean something like this:
Two of these?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/158324-REG/Hosa_Technology_CPR_110_1_4_Male_to_RCA.html

or:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407255-REG/Hosa_Technology_CPR_420AU_Two_1_4_Male_to.html

How can I connect these to my guitar? It has only one output, you know. I feel like i'm missing something essential here right now, It's kinda early in the morning..
 
OK, it's starting to become clearer. Your English is *very* good (at least in writing), but I realize we may have some language barrier, so I'm trying to make sure that we understand each other at all times. In the meantime, I am slowly feeding you specialized recording language so you can increase your recording language proficiency. You are trying to use your stereo as an acoustic guitar amp, separate from your recording of it. That is a different question. You say it works, which is interesting, because it shouldn't.

We are dealing with 4 different types of output here:

1. mic level- this is what a mic puts out. It is very weak, and is usually transmitted by XLR connectors

2. instrument level, also known as high impedence or "high-z" output- what a guitar or keyboard puts out.

3. professional line level (+4dBu) - This is what most recording equipment uses, including the Lexicon Lamda. It is usually transmitted by 1/4" or XLR connectors.

4. consumer line level (-10dBV)- What most home stereo equipment uses. It is usually transmitted by RCA connectors.


By the way, some guitar pickups, like a Fishman stereo blender, really do put out a stereo signal, most don't, so I am presuming you don't have a stereo blender. My guitar has a pickup *and* a mic in it, and it outputs the signal through a 1/4" stereo jack, so you can process the two signals separately.

Our problem is how to get from one 1/4" high-z instrument output to two -10 line level inputs, without spending more than the cost of an acoustic amp. That's a tough one. Often, in live performance, a "direct box" is used. This changes instrument to mic level output, so you can then plug into the mic input on a mixer. This doesn't help in this case, because your stereo doesn't want instrument or mic level. It wants two -10 line level inputs.

There's one way I can think of, but it's a little complicated, and frankly, I'd probably just look for an acoustic amp or a small PA. (public address system). You could use the Lamda. One problem is that it is only USB powered, so it would have to be plugged into the computer just for power. You'll note the Lamda has a high-z (instrument) input on the front panel, and 2 1/4" +4 line level outputs on the back. This helps. It's not that hard to turn +4 into -10, using a "line level shifter". Here's my choice:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=3104&Category=Recording_Accessories

You would take two 1/4" to 1/4" instrument cables ( the shorter the better-cheaper) from the line outputs on the back of the Lamda to the line level shifter. Then two 1/4" to RCA cables out from the line level shifter to the stereo. This cuts cost by using equipment that is already part of the plan. If you already have an instrument input on the Lamda, it might make sense to make use of it.

On the simpler side, by the time you are done buying cables, line level shifting, etc., you might do better just to get a small acoustic amp. Example:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Ibanez-Troubadour-T10-10W-1x6-5-Acoustic-Guitar-Amp-580925-i1443209.gc

Trying to turn a stereo into a guitar amp is a lot like trying to turn Toyota Corolla into a tractor.-Richie
 
OK. First of all, I really appreciate the fact that you give me a good explanation to every question I got. I know really well it takes time to understand the whole situation and then respond in the best way to help. So I say thank you for that :)
And by the way, yeah, there is much to study and learn, so have patience with me, hehe.

Now, to what this is all about.

We are then clear that this is about two totally different things really. Like, when I said I wanted to hook my fine looking guitar to a regular stereo amp, this has nothing to do with the recording/setup or anything. However, I can explain to you how i'm exactly doing this:
I got 1 cable. In the one end, there is a 1/4" connector, in the other end, there is one single Red and one single White cable (RCA). I plug the 1/4" in the output of the guitar and the red and white in my stereo amplifier (Pioneer VSX-10) and the sound is amplified, and lastly reproduced through my speakers.

There you have it, I get my guitar amplified. I'm sure this is NOT the best way to do it, but it was meant for a temporary solution until I got an acoustic amp, like you showed me. I just wanted to have some amplified sound!

(I'm also sure that I didn't have to give you such a detailed description, I bet you knew very good what I meant)

:)

Now, I have been thinking of getting a acoustic amp for a long time, so I guess this is the right time.

One question:
Will the sound from a dedicated (acoustic) guitar amp be better/different than through a stereo amp --> speakers?

Hope I made it clear, and not more distorted :)
 
Will it sound better through an acoustic amp? Probably. Unfortunately, really good ones don't come cheap. Sometimes a small PA is just as good. Here are 2 examples. The first is an acoustic amp that kicks ass, and the second is a small PA that makes a very good acoustic amp:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=3267&Category=Bass_Amplifiers

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=45306&Category=Package_Systems

And I hope I don't sound condescending. I try to imagine every day what it would be like if I had to read your posts in Norwegian. It makes my head hurt just thinking about it. Your English is much better than many of the native English speakers on this board.

Best of luck-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
You are trying to use your stereo as an acoustic guitar amp, separate from your recording of it. That is a different question. You say it works, which is interesting, because it shouldn't.



Trying to turn a stereo into a guitar amp is a lot like trying to turn Toyota Corolla into a tractor.-Richie
Click to expand...

It's interesting that you say that Richie coz back in '82 when I was learning bass, that's what I used to do. I didn't even have an amp till the 90s ! :D I discovered, quite by accident I might add, that if I plugged the jack of my lead into the microphone input of my then tape deck {my pride and joy for many years, a Hitachi that I bought after spotting it in Lasky's while running home 2 miles after missing the last train and bus home !} and put the deck into record mode (and pause, of course), I was able to use the amp (a crappy JVC) to amplify the bass. I used this set up for about 8 years at home. Because the deck had two mic inputs (L&R), I used to tape my drumming friend and I and my guitar playing friends and I and we each had our own channel ! Very 60s. I still have the tapes somewhere though I've not listened to most of them in more than 20 years. I wouldn't be surprized if my musical friends used to think 'why doesn't he just buy an amp !?'
A similar thing happened when recordable CD players came out and I went and bought one without thinking it through. I discovered a way of transfering all my vinyl onto disc. It shouldn't have worked, but it did !
 
i used to own a lexicon omega like the one you presented, it wasnt too bad of quality, but personally id say go for the presnous unit. ive used one of those a fair amount and the mic preamps are a lot better in it.
 
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