Setting gain structure for a choir

[NYMorningstar]

This choir is actually up on the altar in a small/medium size church. So far they're using 2 sound systems. One system is using 5 miniature condensors hanging from the ceiling(in between the floor mics) and on the lecterns using an EV board. The other system is 6 Shure 58's going through a mackie pa head.
There are 4 speakers, 2 mounted on the front wall using the EV and 2 on poles in the back facing the front using the mackie.

When I first got involved with this there was major floor noise and feedback and some mics not working. I looked at the mackie head and saw the graphic equalizer set up looking real pretty, with an almost perfect bell curve, and the faders looked as even as witches teeth. The parametric equalizers on each channel were everywhere, almost like a kid was using them to make an etch-a-sketch with the effects feeds(set to small hall ) about the same. The EV board looked pretty much the same.

I was real short on time so I zeroed out the EQ across the board, set the channel pres halfway, and put all the channel faders at zero db and turned off the effects. I raised the mains until I got feedback and then backed them off a little. I had no way to test this so that is how they used it Sunday morning.

Aside from the fact that for the first ten minutes no one turned on power for the EV system, the service sounded pretty darn good. No feedback, no floor noise and you could hear everyone in the choir, including the men The only problem was the back of the church was too loud.

The speakers in the back were basically being used as monitors for the choir and were way too far away for that. This week I am putting a couple wedges in front of the altar facing the choir and moving the speakers in the back of the church up to about midway and turning them around to face the back. This way I can turn down the volume on the back speakers and the choir will still be able to hear themselves.

Questions:
1. Which sound system should I put the wedges on, the EV or the mackie or both? Should I use one system to just monitor? If I record this it will be on the EV system.

2. Should I move the back speakers up halfway or all the way to the front?

3. Is there a better way to set the gain structure? Should I leave the EQ alone. The system sounded transparent without it and real good. No effects?

4. The mackie has an onboard compressor, leave it off?

 

[boingoman]

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it. Good, clear, transparent sound. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Maybe (maybe) roll some low end off if you hear some rumbling, but don't if you don't need it. With a lot of open mics, the lows and low mids can pile up. Sounds like you fixed that already by flattening the EQ. And hats off for finding your point of feedback and backing off to give some headroom. Lots of people don't do that.

I would use the feed from the Shures for the monitors, if it is good enough. They are feeding the far speakers, right? Almost no chance for feedback. Just be aware that the hanging mics will pick up the wedges if they are loud. Keep the volume mellow as possible, and try to keep them from hitting any hard walls or ceilings as much as possible to cut down on nasty reflections. I would also think about getting a seperate EQ for the wedges, or make sure you can use one of the board EQs for them.

Different subject- why two sets of mics? You may want to experiment with listening to both sets, choosing the one that sounds best, and running a feed from one mixer to the other. Fewer mics, less set-up, etc.

Again, though, if it sounds good already, it is good.

Sounds like an OK way to set gain structure as well, if nothing is overloading. You may be able to get a slightly better signal to noise ratio doing it differently, but with modern equipment in a live setting, it might be hard to tell. You may want to rethink it if your main faders are really low, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[AGCurry]

A choir should not need monitors unless the congregation is talking. Monitors will only provide a false sense to the choir, as well as introduce a possibility for feedback.

 

[mshilarious]

A choir should not need monitors unless the congregation is talking. Monitors will only provide a false sense to the choir, as well as introduce a possibility for feedback.

If they sing to a keyboard or band, they'd need that feed. But that shouldn't cause feedback. And soloists like to have monitors. But yeah, I'd keep those overheads out of the monitors.

I am also not sure with the 58s are doing that's worthwhile. Maybe keep a couple for soloists, but 6?

 

[NYMorningstar]

Thanks for all replies and ideas. I think I'm going to keep the condensors as is and cut back to one Shure mic for solo's this week. The keyboards have been going through the mackie to, so I think I'll use the wedges for that and mic the guitar, bass and drums so I can send a nice monitor mix to the choir with the extra mics I'll have. Now that I think of it, they probably had the mackie speakers turned toward the altar so they could here the keyboards. I'll be keeping track of those condensors picking up on the wedges too. Chime in if anyone has any other ideas.