Seriously... I don't get it........

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blue Bear Sound
  • Start date Start date
OK, just let me drag a wet cat home.

Q: What do you need in order to do mastering?

1. An acoustically accurate listening environment, and listening system.
2. Very good, TRAINED, experienced ears.
3. An in-debt knowledge of music / sound.
4. Suiteable equipment.

Take 1 or 2 away, and you cannot do it. Simple as that.
Add three and you're on to something.
The better 1, 2 and 3, the less important 4 becomes.

All the equipment in the world won't fix a thing if you don't hear what needs fixing. That goes for you at home mixing a song, that goes equally for an engineer trying to master a song in an unsuiteable environment. That also is the difference between bad, good and great mastering engineers.
 
All exactly right... except I think you need to include the rather important point that the mastering engineer needs the objectivity towards the project as well.

Given all the right gear, the right environment, the right ears (statistically seasoned by hearing hundreds and hundreds of people's mixed) - I myself would not attempt to go master my own project for the simple reason that I am too close to it - I would miss element in the mix that I would have gotten used to during the other stages of the recording process.

A major factor of the the entire process is also a certain objectivity to each stage in that process. Which is also why producers exist and why it is very difficult for bands to produce their own work. "Whad'da'ya mean a 5-minute preamble intro makes no sense, this IS ART, man...!"

Bruce
 
Sjoko freudianly typed:in-debt knowledge of music / sound
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That's funny :D, I'm pretty far in debt attaining gear so that I can attain more knowledge & experience of music & sound.

Queue
 
Blue Bear Sound said:


Given all the right gear, the right environment, the right ears (statistically seasoned by hearing hundreds and hundreds of people's mixed) - I myself would not attempt to go master my own project for the simple reason that I am too close to it - I would miss element in the mix that I would have gotten used to during the other stages of the recording process.
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DUH.

THats why we post in the mixing clinic! You tweat to the best of your ability, but somewhere down the line, you start adding elements based on a certain mindset. THats when you put it in the clinic.

Its easy for someone who is hearing it the first time to know that something needs fixing there is too much verb or the snare is too low etc.

Its amazing how someone will say, hey, that sounds thin and only then will I start hearing the thinnes
 
Bwa-ha-ha.... :D :D

Yeah - I know... Aerosmith posted their last album in the Mix Clinic, 'cos they were also bitten by the DIY mastering bug too and Bob Katz was busy....

Ya know what they say - if it gets by the ears in the HR Mix Clinic, it'll get by anywhere....

Hey!!!! Maybe the Mix Clinic comes in a plug-in form!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:


:D :D
 
Lets make a deal!

Deal #1
If you have a great mix and it still needs mastering, Just send all your work To Ed or sjoko2. Why? Because the time and money you waste will be 1/10th the amount the 2 of them will charge.

Deal #2
If you have a okay mix, take the raw tracks to a local studio, sjoko2, Ed, Bruce etc. Have a them mix it. See #1.

Deal #3
If you have crummy tracks, go to a studio near you. Follow up with #2 and then #1

Deal #4
Realise that you're in it for fun or that it's a demo and doesn't need "pro" sound, then tweek till you can not tweek any more.

Deal #5
You want to persue a carrer in mastering, visit a mastering house, make buddies, hang out, learn learn learn learn.
 
I think most people realize that even professional mastering won't solve serious problems with a mix, and even if they're in love with their own stuff they can probably recognize that either the mix or the material isn't worth a couple hundred dollars in mastering. At this point, the logical question is what can be done (for free) in the secure confines of my own hard drive to spruce this up a bit?

And I don't think that's an unreasonable question.
 
Dolemite said:
I think most people realize that even professional mastering won't solve serious problems with a mix...
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I don't think that's true.... I think many novices have quite the opposite impression.


And while yes, they may want to tweek their mediocre mix for as few dollars as possible, which, as you said, is not unreasonable... BUT then they turn around and buy a $2500.00 Finalizer???????

Like I said... I don't get it! ;)


BTW, I understand the need to tweek and fiddle with knobs... it's great fun... my rant isn't directed at those who know what the Mastering process entails, but choose to fool around on their own anyways.... my problem is with those who have no clue about mastering, but honestly beleive a plug-in or outboard box can replace it and dismiss the whole art out-of-hand.


Bruce
 
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Yeah, I guess I have seen enough clueless mastering questions that people may not realize what can and cannot be done. I do think its valid to ask for help when you understand the limitations and just want to "spruce things up" so to speak. As long as you're not expecting to "Bruce things up!" ;)

As far as the Finalizer, they seem like more of a "home mastering kit" than any sort of serious gear, so maybe they're reaching their target market there. Obviously $2500 will buy you a lot better mastering than anything that will come out of a Finalizer.
 
I see where bruce is coming from.

On the other hand, there are those, proffesionals AND Homers, that believe that mastering is NOT even necessary.

THose in this school of thought believe that you should create the best sound possible from the number of tracks that you have instead of waiting till its a two track beast.

I am in this school of thought myself. I believe that it should be perfect by the time it comes out of mixing stage. I like having fun adding compression and eq and reverb to 24 tracks. Of course, if I ever have to make a cd that 1 million people will buy, then I will go to a mastering house because they have a more accurate system/room.

Where its all at is DIY. I Spent $5000 on gear so I would not have to pay a Tuba major $2000 to record a cd on a vs1680 and a rode nt1. Guess what? this has been the most fun, best learning experience that I have ever had. I also have a rack to show for it, instead of just a Compact disc.

If my mixing gets good, and I see opportunities to get my music heard, do you think that I will pay a mastering engineer $5000 to master my record? Freaking Heck NO. I will buy a pair of Questeds and a hafler amp and bring somebody in to treat my room LEDE, , and I will DO IT MYSELF.

Why, not because I can do as good as the mastering engineer, no. But because in the end I have something to show for it, and it opens up a whole new world to me.... and maybe eventually,I will be able to get as good a product as a mastering engineer.

Another school of thought , I am not in this one, believes that its the music that gets the message accross, not the mix, as long as everything is reasonably intelligible.
 
I get what you are saying Cyan, but you really should consider that the very vast majority of recording / mixing engineers, including the top ones, will send their stuff away for mastering, simply because you really should consider it a DIFFERENT JOB, requiring a different set of skills.
If pro's with years and years of experience in audio don't feel they can do as good a job as a mastering engineer................................................. do I need to say more?
 
I agree with Sjoko2 .....One thing that seems to be never mentioned is the artistic part of mastering.The things like makeing a album/CD feel right,Dynamics,Song sequencing,Space between songs.All those things contribute to how a CD feels .

Don
 
OH SURE............... I've been saying that all along, but no one believes me until Sjoko agrees with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*grrrrrrrrrrr*

:D ;)

Bruce
 
Bad, maybe.... but still not a prick... sorry Sjoko! :D :D :D
 
sjoko2 said:
you really should consider that the very vast majority of recording / mixing engineers, including the top ones, will send their stuff away for mastering, simply because you really should consider it a DIFFERENT JOB, requiring a different set of skills.
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Sjoko2, please correct me if I am wrong. Is mastering not simply a progression of mixing? I understand that it will be a different set of skills when you talk about knowing where to put a song on a cd, knowing the amount of space between each song, etc as henri devill mentioned.

BUt the audio aspect, which is what I think Bruce is specifically talking about, ie the compression, the eqing, is this not basically mixing with a more accurate setup?

I say it is a progression because I can see how a mastering engineer will be able to also function as a mix engineer if the need arose and still be able to turn out a good job, so I am thinking that mastering is when a mix engineer has excelled at mixing and is ready to take on the next level.

Is it possible to have a mastering engineer that is useless at mixing? I personally think not, but I would like to know your opinion.
 
From what little that I know...And that is a small amount..LOL
The lines have gotten blured a bit with the demise of Records,CDs have changed the the game a bit."Cutting" a record
was alot more involved than CDs..Groove cutting was a science,
If I remember you had about 45 mins. per LP, so you would have to balance your freq. from Lo to Hi in order to fit it on the disk.That was because Lo took a deep wide groove ,too much Lo and you would eat up too much real estate, too much Hi and you have tracking issues.You would have to balance the freq for time and estetics....So to me in my opinion, thats when the masterer was the undeniable king of the final product.But like recording "tracking" ,"mixing"..alot has changed ,now you've got all the different mediums to record to with all there different inhearent problems...A good masterer now is still a artist.Someone like a Bob Katz is fanatical about freq.and tone and feel.You cant even wear a baseball cap in one of his sessions
because it causes a comb filter effect {screws with the mids}.To have that much energy expended at just one phase of the recording is amazing!Now try and do that with every single phase...Tracking,Mixing,Editing and mastering hell add producing to that also, its daunting task!To do one thing at the highest level that you can do is hard !To do it all and keep focus well....
To me thats why there are guys who simply do certain things.Its simply too much for one guy to do! Just my 2cents


Don
 
There seem to be many people here that are at many different stages of proffesionalism... people see things differently because of where they are at. I agree with most of the views...in some ways. I think that maybe anything is possible. (whether is is or it isn't) No one likes to be told that they "can't" do something. I personally like to see anyone TRY something rather than just say " I can't do that". Its the challenge of trying new things that makes all this fun to me. And maybe getting something to sound better than it did before, even if that is not as great as it could sound coming from a mastering house. It seems like there is a line between those who own real studios and those working at home on a lesser budget. I can understand a studio sending things out to be "mastered" . Thats what pros do...I also see Homies trying to do DIY at home and all the while learning things. There are some very creative minds here...maybe its a hell of a lot of work and learning to be able to DIY. But thats also the fun of it for many.... And most people I have ever met in my life are always willing to help anyone who is trying. thanks all
 
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