sennheiser 421 applications (or "How do you use your 421?")

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jdier

jdier

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I have a Sennheiser 421 that I have used with great results on Snare (alone and mixed together with a 57 <top/bottom>)

Next weekend I am doing some electric guitar... Any suggestions for getting good results? (twin reverb type amp.)

I tried using it for vocals and had some very poor results. I did not mess with it much, just experiementing, I may have been too far away (5")

Is this mic appropriate for lead vocals? How do you get good results?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jim
 
I use it for male scratch vocs, and male backgrounds. I like my SP C-1 better for lead, but there's a nice quality to the 421 too. More detail than a 57. I get best results when I'm within an inch or two...


Daf
 
I've used the 421 with good results on male voices that tend to be on the nasaly side of things. I agree that closer would be better for this mic. As a voiceover mic it's great, for lead vocals it's not your generalist mic (nor is it intended to be), however, it can be a good lead mic for certain vocals.

Given that the 421 is a dynamic (also given the mic's sound), I've found it best to use it with clean mic preamps or mixers. I've actually had good results with this mic and Mackie mixers for preamps when used on male, nasaly vocals.

Es.
 
I only used one to record kick. It rocked! I wish I could afford one.

And live I used it on bass. I guess it's also suited for toms and floortom...
 
The Sennheiser MD421 is a great mic... for vox, eat the mic. The MD421 is also great on kick, toms, guitar amps, bass amps, sax, and etc. IMO, the MD421 is a "must have" type mic.
 
421 manual

DJL,

Where could I learn more about the ring at the bottom of the mic. I think I have a U5 version and the ring turns left to right and has about 6 settings. None are marked and I have not messed with them yet.

Is this just a ~volume~ control or pad for the mic?
 
Re: 421 manual

jdier said:
DJL,

Where could I learn more about the ring at the bottom of the mic. I think I have a U5 version and the ring turns left to right and has about 6 settings. None are marked and I have not messed with them yet.

Is this just a ~volume~ control or pad for the mic?
Click to expand...

I see LooneyTunez has already correctly answered your question. Thank you LooneyTunez. :)
 
In the "M" setting, I need to be at least 6" away from a 421.
jdier, what specifically about the sound makes it "poor results"?

Usually, if you sound "good" on a SM57, a 421 will also work on your voice, if that helps as a reference point.

Chris
 
It picked up a lot of the room, or echo type sounds, which my SP C3 does not pick up. It also made me sound very thin and weak.

I believe, from reading these replies that I have two problems... One: I need to check the setting on the mic and pick the right one for the application, second: I need to get up closer to the mic. The more I think about it, the more I think I may have been as far as a foot away.

I am going to take another run at it.

Again, since I have the C3, this is not a do or die situation.

When I get new mics, I like to test them out and try different things. A lot of the guys here seem to have done a lot of this also, so my posts always yeild some great ideas for me to try.

I am learning more every day!

Thanks,

Jim
 
That (distance 1') is the problem.

Try it with the "M" setting, and one click away from "M" with a
starting point of 5 or six inches away.
Those are the typical settings for recording vocals on a 421.

Chris
 
Chris and DJL,

Now that we are alone here I was wondering if I could throw a few off topic questions to you:

1. With my current mics (421, C2, B1 and some 57/58's) is there an obvious affordable mic pre which would open up some options for vocals? Maybe I do not understand mic pres... but I would like to be able to color the sound, warm it up, give the B1's more presence... I know that I can do this with EQ, and I do, but I just have a hankering for a mic pre. Am I pissing my money away?

2. For drum overheads I am using beta57's right now (since the B1's did not work so well.) I use the overheads with one pointed directly at the snare and one directly at the kick, so I am trying to get much more than just cymbals. I understand that many people like the Marshall 603's and they are cheap. I have this feeling that they will not hold their value. What are your thoughts on the matched pair studio projects mics, Octava 012's, Rode? Any other options for this? My problem is that I think most people use overheads to get just cymbals.... I mic up with two overheads, two mics in the kick and one or two on the snare and that is it. I need overheads that will get a full range.

3. (last one I promise) What mics are obvious omissions from my collection? >> I have 421, C2, B1, 57/58's, beta 57's, beta 52, pair PZM.

What I am looking for are mics that will:
1. Give me vocal options (4 different singers, very different voices)
2. Hold their value.

Thanks for all of the help guys. Do either of you have your music posted somewhere that I can hear it?

Jim
 
Jim, you could try, with all the vocal microphones you have, (except 421)
including the Beta 57, pointing them downward toward the mouth to
pick up more chest tones in the voice. If you have the "standard" 421
clip, the microphone can easily fall out in that position.

What kind of mixer and/or mic pre(s) are you using now?

On drum overheads, DJL (or someone else) can better guide you since
I'm "only" a singers who records other singers/myself for the most part.

Almost all my recording is just for vocal training and rehearsal purposes,
and not creating CD or MP3 stuff at the present time.
Occasionally, I help make "learning tapes" for four part acapella singing
(barbershop) for two chapters with one part predominant.

You may want to consider getting at least one ribbon microphone for
vocals, like one of the Beyers (M160, M260, M500).
Look for one modified by Stephen Sank, if possible.
An affordable way to get some of that sound is by getting either a
Electro-Voice RE15 or RE16 dynamic microphone.

I've also got a Beyer MKII (M400) dynamic, that same model Harvey uses at his
studio, especially for "screamers". You're welcome to send me a
PM (private message), if you'd like to consider buying it from me.
It kills a SM58 on most voices IMHO.

Your 421 is known to have a thick, warm, "cutting" sound, that's able
to be heard in a busy mix BTW-make sure to experiment more with it.

Chris
 
i have used 421's on just about everything with much success. i've used it on any part of a drum kit, including an overhead once, when i was limited on mic selection. didnt sound like a 414 or anything, but way better than a 57. electric guitar, bass guitar, sax, trumpet, clarinet, vocals. oh yeah, any percussion instrument.
IMHO 57's and 421's are great complimentary mics. if a 57 isnt quite right, a 421 usually is. and vice versa.
 
Jim,
IMO, all the preamps under $200 are pretty much the same give or take a little and you really don’t start hearing a big difference until you start getting into $700 and up price range… so yea, I think you’d just be pissing away your money.
I have 8 Marshall MXL603S’s and I like them a lot, however, I prefer the MC-012's as drum overheads more. A simple budget way to mic drums would be something like your MD421 on kick, the SM57 on snare and two MC-012's X/Yed as overheads. May times I prefer a M201 on snare top and a 57 or something on the bottom (flip the phase) … and D112 almost outside of the kick with a MD421 on the inside close to the hammer striking point and MC-012’s as overheads.
You need some LDC mic’s. I’d get some dark, more neutral, and brighter type mic’s.
If you want mic’s that hold their value don’t by budget mic’s like Studio Projects, Marshall, and etc… stay with top name brands.
 
DJL,

Thanks for taking all of the time to respond to all of my questions.

I think I will hold off on a pre for now.

I really want to get something over the kit to replace the beta 57's. I am thinking that I will look at some of these matched pairs:

AKG C451
Shure SM81LC

What are your thoughts on Rode 5 and oktava 012?
 
I have the NT5's and I prefer the MC-012's for overheads more. I hope I was able to help you some... and with that said I wish you the best.

Do to all the BS on this board (Mighty mics...) and my agrreement with Chressrock and etc... and not wanting to piss-off Harvey... I'm going to the lurking mode and I soon may be leaving this bbs for good.
 
DJL,

Sorry to hear. If you do start participating somewhere else, let me know. You have been a tremendous help to me over the past few weeks!

Thanks and best.

Jim
 
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