send to reverb

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Opivy

Opivy

Nova Police
So, my next venture in my quest is to learn how to use reverb properly.

I've read, and been told that it's best not to insert it onto a track - as you want to control how much of the signal actually gets mixed in (although I like how it sounds through my headphones when I'm singing. makes me feel like I'm singing better)

But I'm confused about a couple of things.

So, in Cubase - I make an FX channel, and put a reverb one it. (Roomworks, the other 2 don't make any sense to me) and send let's say, a vocal track to it.

Now there is an output knob - and also my little "line" on my sends thing above the EQ.

What is the difference between these two? Because to my understanding they seem to be the same thing.
 
The main difference is when using an aux return (or FX channel.. whatever Cubase calls it) you can send multiple tracks to it and only use one instance of that reverb plug-in. Obviously with the other method, you're going to have one instance of the plug-in on every track you want the reverb on, which would hog much more of your CPU.

Another plus side to using the plug-in on an aux return that I've grown to enjoy is seeing the level of the verb on the meter. I like having a visual of how much of the 100% wet verb is coming into the mix.

You'll still hear the reverb when you're singing while using an aux return.

Also, don't most reverb plug-ins have a mix knob so you can control the mix between wet/dry? So you can still control the mix if you insert it on a track.
 
Not sure about in the box I always use a verb out of the box in my rack so as not to eat up CPU... dam verb is a hog in the box!





:cool:
 
Exactly austin, but the "Send" function also has a bar that I can adjust a percentage of from there - so I assume both are to mix the wet/dry signal?

So would it be best to leave one of the knobs at 100% and do adjustments from the other?
 
Okay, so one of the two controls you're referring to is the output level of the "FX channel" and one is the level for the send (the percentage bar), right?

Well, if you're only using the FX channel/aux return for one track, then it doesn't really matter which one you choose to use. But yes, I'd leave one at 100% to make it easier.

If you were using that FX channel/aux return for more than one track's reverb, then you would have to be using the send level (percentage bar) to adjust for how much reverb you want for each track, and leave the output of the FX ch/aux return in one spot.
 
Thanks so much! Makes much more sense now, - but messing with a delay VST right now I've become confused again.

So... In this - I have a dry/wet mix knob, an input knob, and an output knob. Not to mention my send level.

So, if I adjust my dry/wet to how I like it I would simply use the send level to adjust individual tracks from there

But the input/output knobs, even though they seem self explanatory are confusing me.

Really appreciate the help Austin =)
 
Hmm. I'm not sure exactly what different input and output levels will do at this point. I guess you'll just have to play with them and see how it sounds.

All I know is 'input' is how much of the signal you want to bring in and 'output' is how much of the signal + effect (according to the 'mix') you want to send out of the plug-in.

You're very welcome. :cool:
 
Keep your effects at 100% wet for the situations you're talking about.
 
Okay, after thinking some stuff over and playing a bit more with Reverb I have a few more questions - and hardly felt it fit to make a new thread.

I was watching the videos in the "How to mix a song from beginning to end" thread - and noticed he was inserting reverbs directly onto the tracks -

Which is why I started this thread, thinking there was something wrong with this.

if you want that reverb only on one track, is there a reason to put a send to it? Now that I'm understanding these wet/dry and send level knobs better, couldn't you just insert it onto the track and control how much you have with the wet/dry knob?

Also - A friend told me that using different reverbs on different instruments/vocals in the same song will cause them to conflict.

I've tried it, and to be honest I can't hear anything wrong with it - but I would like to hear your opinions.
 
The reason people advise routing several tracks to one reverb is mainly to do with CPU conservation, as you're aware, and to save having to match the controls for each one. Also to conjure the sense all the musicians are playing 'in' the same environment. I'm working with several voice tracks in a play and I want the characters to sound like they are in the same room together. As they move to different parts of the house or leave the house and go into the garden, or get into a car... etc.

But if you're dealing with electronic music, you certainly have the creative freedom to create somethng else entirely and the environment/atnosphere you might want to conjure can be abstract. That's not to say you can't do this with any kind of music. It just depends on what you want to do.

A lot of people like to add extra 'verb to their drums to shape them up and add presence. Maybe they want to creatively shape each part of the kit individually and once applied, you might not want the same for your guitar. You might want a keyboard sound to possess a distinctive decay... Sometimes, I find some instruments just need a little bit of individual toning and shaping, which I can't quite get with a single catch-all effect. VSTs do give you a lot of extra freedom and that's why so many people are moving over to computers, from old conventional gear.

I appreciate the need to save CPU but in practice, I've never had an issue when I've used many VSTs together. The time to worry is when a problem occurs.

As for reverb units conflicting, that would be the result of a creative analysis, rather than a technical one and certainly not one which needs to be governed by hard and fast rules. You say it sounds right... then it IS right. :)

DAW software manuals will make recommendations for managing CPU and memory but whether it becomes an issue would depend on the complexity of the piece you're creating. Instinct should tell you when you're in danger of over-doing things.

To be honest, I suspect there are many more powerful machines used in home studios than mine - and the only time I get CPU slow-down is when my anti-virus is doing scans. The one thing I do notice, however, is the project will take a lot longer to load when I've used a lot of VSTs but once loaded it performs smoothly. I don't think music is really that much of a challenge to a computer, as long as you're within spec and the software is well designed.

Don't get too hung up on the hard and fast rules of conventional wisdom but consider them sensible guidelines. There is, of course, a certain elegance in keeping things simple on the effects front but if things are working for you, then don't let it cast doubt on your creativity, just because it's 'not supposed to be that way'. Don't create issues when there aren't any. Just create music.

Hope this helps.

Dr. V
 
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I was watching the videos in the "How to mix a song from beginning to end" thread - and noticed he was inserting reverbs directly onto the tracks -

Which is why I started this thread, thinking there was something wrong with this.

if you want that reverb only on one track, is there a reason to put a send to it? Now that I'm understanding these wet/dry and send level knobs better, couldn't you just insert it onto the track and control how much you have with the wet/dry knob?

Also - A friend told me that using different reverbs on different instruments/vocals in the same song will cause them to conflict.

I've tried it, and to be honest I can't hear anything wrong with it - but I would like to hear your opinions.
Like Varney said, using a reverb as an insert can take up a lot of CPU if you're doing it to several tracks. The other reason you might not want to use it as an insert is that, if you insert a stereo effect into a mono track, I think the effect will be mono also. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% sure of that one).

As far as different reverbs "conflicting", that might be true. It also might be false, depends on the song, reverb, amount, etc... But to say: "As a rule, different reverbs will always clash" is false, in my opinion.
 
The other reason you might not want to use it as an insert is that, if you insert a stereo effect into a mono track, I think the effect will be mono also. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% sure of that one).

I think that's a very good point and although I'm not 100% sure either, it makes enough sense to me. I think it's probably true.

Dr. V
 
thanks guys =)

This reminded me of another question I had though (Gawd, I should really keep a pen and paper around and just get them all out at once)

When I create an FX track, should it be stereo - or mono? I've been using mono because I've been sending my recordings done in mono to them

but not quite sure if that's the right thing to do hehe.
 
I really don't know but all mine are in stereo, even when dealing with mono material. Your question's made me think, but to be honest... sounds alright to me.

Dr. V
 
Let's say you're sending a snare and three toms to a reverb FX track / aux return.

You may not want your FX track to be mono if your toms are panned L, left-center, and R. If you pan the sends on them to fit the panning of the tom tracks themselves and have a stereo FX track for reverb, then it will come through accordingly. Meaning, the reverb for the tom panned left will be on the left, and so on.

If it's an FX channel for one track, then mono would probably suffice. Maybe you're going for the sound or style of having all the reverb in mono.. so, in these cases, GO MONO! :P

I normally do stereo tracks for reverb inserts.
 
... The other reason you might not want to use it as an insert is that, if you insert a stereo effect into a mono track, I think the effect will be mono also. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% sure of that one).

.

Opivy said:
When I create an FX track, should it be stereo - or mono? I've been using mono because I've been sending my recordings done in mono to them

A note on stereo/mono; In sonar (as an example) all the paths (tracks, busses etc) are dual paths i.e., stereo capable. The only difference to the app' is what you have running on (through.. :)) the path -a mono track or not. As I understand it the only function in the case or Sonar at least of the 'mono/stereo button on the channel or buss is to force an inserted plug to be 'mono or vise versa. An example would be; if you insert a stereo verb on your mono vocal track, you get stereo verb around you vocal. Click 'mono, you now have forced the verb to mono. (Apparently not all plugs respond to this either.

As far as different reverbs "conflicting", that might be true. It also might be false, depends on the song, reverb, amount, etc... But to say: "As a rule, different reverbs will always clash" is false, in my opinion..

Agree totally. We often use a few different verbs for different purposes (maybe more often on different instruments though.
 
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