screamers and grabbing the mic

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amra said:
Give them a 57, 58 or other dynamic and let them go to town. You CAN get a good recording this way.

Sometimes the energy and comfort level a screamer gets recording that way brings more to the recording that then the "pristineness" of a condenser on a mic stand with a pop screen....
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yeah with the screamo guys, they have to hold it and make out with it.

its just what they do, becuase it doesnt sound right if they dont.

you could always dab some acetone on the grill, and they'll back off pretty darn quickly.
 
zacanger said:
Give 'em an SM57, they'll feel more hardcore.
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and take a second one and shove it up there ass.

now they can be an Emo bitch and hardcore at the same time.
 
mshilarious said:
This is why every studio should have an SM58. Then set up a real mic a foot away ;)
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ANYTIME I use a LDC, tube, or ribbon I set up a 58 or an AT ST90 about 18" in front of the real input and send the input to a diferent channel. Afterward I decide whether or not to use the 58 track in the mix. It does let the talent give you a 'live' feel and performance and you don't kill your equipment.

The idea of beating or kicking the lead vox should only be pursued AFTER they have paid the bill. At that point it has a certain attraction........ :D
 
TragikRemix said:
and take a second one and shove it up there ass.

now they can be an Emo bitch and hardcore at the same time.
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Oohhh, hot.
 
58's are cheap, and it's not likely that they're gonna screw one up while eating it, as long as they don't actually swallow it. You can always tell them to bring their own mic to abuse. In any case, I believe in letting the artist indulge fully in their muse, no matter how stupid it may actually be. I'd record the track from the screamo mic, and have an LDC up and recording a foot away, with the warning that if it gets touched, the session is over. Then let the chips fall where they may during mixdown, all LDC / all screamo mic / or a blend. It's their music, let them create it in any way that doesn't hurt your gear.

BTW, I believe Jim Morrison was insistant on working a handheld in the studio while being tracked with an LDC.
 
Robert D said:
58's are cheap, and it's not likely that they're gonna screw one up while eating it, as long as they don't actually swallow it. You can always tell them to bring their own mic to abuse. In any case, I believe in letting the artist indulge fully in their muse, no matter how stupid it may actually be. I'd record the track from the screamo mic, and have an LDC up and recording a foot away, with the warning that if it gets touched, the session is over. Then let the chips fall where they may during mixdown, all LDC / all screamo mic / or a blend. It's their music, let them create it in any way that doesn't hurt your gear.

BTW, I believe Jim Morrison was insistant on working a handheld in the studio while being tracked with an LDC.
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:D :D :D :D :D
 
Robert D said:
In any case, I believe in letting the artist indulge fully in their muse, no matter how stupid it may actually be.
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I agree with that on paper, but when, because of the technicalities of the actual art and science of recording, they wind up choking their own muse with a piano wire because they have no training in proper mic technique, then it's the engineer's job to step in and inform them of such and to do what they can to find the right balance between muse and ability to capture that same muse. That balance requires cooperation between artist and engineer.

The fact is, no matter how you slice it, anyone who *needs* to use improper mic technique it acheive a certain level of performance is, by definition, a rank amateur that needs to learn some studio ropes if he truely wants to get that performance sounding on playback as it did live.

I know this one gal who's a vocalist and band leader. She is currently working with another engineer on developing her own album. I can only hope that her engineer has enough experience to coach her in microphone technique because her live show technique is awful. Among other things, she does just the opposite of what she should be doing as far as self-leveling: the louder and more emotionally she sings, the closer she pulls the mic to her mouth. It sounds horrid live, and it will sound even worse in the studio. And all the gizmos and all the engineers in the world won't be able to put such vocals back together again.

G.
 
Give the dummy a dummy mic to use as a dummy (pacifier) & record with another.
 
SSG & RAYC - What I think you both, and some others in the thread, are not acknowledging, is that, no matter how much we think it's garbage, it is in some peoples minds a valid musical expression to use capsule distortion. There are in fact people on the listening end of things that enjoy the resultant mangled sound. Music is in the ear of the beholder, and as an engineer hired by the artist, or by a producer who's supporting that artistic direction, it's probably our job to cover both bases. That means capturing both the mangled sound and a properly recorded second track in case they come to thier senses during mixdown..... or not. ;)
Remember, as far as the conventional engineers at Abby Road were concerned, the Beatles were breaking a lot of rules in their recording experimentation, and I'm sure they knew better and felt it was their responsibility to set them straight. Fortunately, someone had a better idea..... let em brake the rules. Those old farts probably went to their graves thinking a lot of the resultant sound was garbage, just as we will never think that letting someone eat the mic and scream it into oblivion was a good idea.
 
put rat poison on the head of the mic, get a second mic that records his moaning and coughing before he does us all a favour and dies... it will sound the same in the mix....

well actually i would do whats sugested previosly. record a track where there eating the mic. and have a second mic about a fot away recording on a seperate track so you can have the distorion of the eating mic. and the "good" sound of the waching mic.
 
Nick_Black said:
well actually i would do whats sugested previosly. record a track where there eating the mic. and have a second mic about a fot away recording on a seperate track so you can have the distorion of the eating mic. and the "good" sound of the waching mic.
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That's exactly what was done here:

439606132_l.jpg


Actually, I stand corrected. The Sony was used for clean vocal parts. It might've been used for some ambience as well. The 421 he's singing into was split to the desk and to a guitar amp that was miked.
 
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Robert D said:
Remember, as far as the conventional engineers at Abby Road were concerned, the Beatles were breaking a lot of rules in their recording experimentation
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eating the mic is no longer "experimentation"
it's a well worn path to bad sound in my opinion.

Adam P said:
The 421 he's singing into was split to the desk and to a guitar amp that was miked.
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i always forget that (guit amp split) possibility.
 
Robert D,
What you don't seem to have twigged from my post is that I know some folk NEED to do that with a mic. Just don't let it be the recording mic OR record with 2 mics so you can blend & edit. BUT don't let them hang from bang into the sole source of signal.
A dummy mic to do some S&M with while another is close by recording.... that's not denting a primal need is it?
 
All I can really say on the subject is this:

Go get the new Lamb of God record...

then go get the DVD "making of".


Randy's screams sound incredible. Guess what? SM58, cupped, slammed, whatever (on one song he actually ran around the block and the engineer shoved the 58 in his face and hit record right when he came through the door).

I don't really care about all the should be/must be/bad technique crap. If it sounds good then track it. Isn't that what recording is about in the first place?
 
giraffe said:
eating the mic is no longer "experimentation"
it's a well worn path to bad sound in my opinion.
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Yes, in my opinion too, but it's not our music. You always have the option of turning down the project, but I just don't feel it's right to take the job and then dictate what constitutes art.
 
producerkid said:
All I can really say on the subject is this:

Go get the new Lamb of God record...

then go get the DVD "making of".


Randy's screams sound incredible. Guess what? SM58, cupped, slammed, whatever (on one song he actually ran around the block and the engineer shoved the 58 in his face and hit record right when he came through the door).

I don't really care about all the should be/must be/bad technique crap. If it sounds good then track it. Isn't that what recording is about in the first place?
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What makes you think that the scenes from the DVD actually contain the audio that made it to disc? I would bet that most of the shit didn't. Most people in the studio don't want cameras in their face when they are recording.
 
Well I mean, the fact that it's a 58 is pretty apparent if you just listen to the vocals, theres nothing on the other sides of 200-8k or thereabouts. I dont know that it was that way for a fact, but i'd deffinately be willing to bet alot on it. You can tell those types of vocals when you hear them (if you are familiar with that kind of music and know what cupping a 58 sounds like). Plus on the DVD they line up the finished product's audio over the video of him cutting the track and its identical.

It's all subjective, but whatever.

The point remains the same: if it sounds good do it.


~the kid
 
i'll have to listen to it, having a dynamic cupped and shoved directly in the grill has a very distinct sound.
very boomy, and almost no hi end. muffled is the best word to describe it.
try it some time and see for your self.
 
Robert D said:
Yes, in my opinion too, but it's not our music. You always have the option of turning down the project, but I just don't feel it's right to take the job and then dictate what constitutes art.
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one of #1 jobs of the engineer is mic choice (and placement, which in this context is interchangeable with technique when technique=more distance=different placement), not sure how that could be seen as overstepping "artistic" boundaries.
 
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