Scrapping the Tracks

EdWonbass

EdWonbass

pull the goalie
Hey Guys I recorded my band almost a year ago and due to a bunch of things we are just now getting around to getting the thing done.
In the time since we did the initial tracking I have been adding equipment and getting better at recording drums. For example, I didn't have a pair of condensers for overheads and only had the ability to record 4 tracks at a time. Now I can record stereo drums and also make them sound much better.
I also am not very happy with the guitar sounds and the performance of the guitar playing.
Oh and I didn't know much about setting levels for digital recording and I might have recorded some things too hot.

I know if these guys would give me an afternoon of their time I could get us going in the right direction. How can I convince them that we should scrap the tracks and start over? I thought about telling them that the hard drive with the files on it died and everything was lost. :D
 
say that the parts are out of time, or make up that you did something wrong.
Or explain to them what youve said to us, im sure they wont mind too much :)
 
Just explain that the previous recordings are not quite up to par. Explain your upgrades and how this will improve the quality of recording. Point out the parts of the old recording that you aren't satisfied with. If they are serious about making quality recordings you should have no problem convincing them to lay down a new recording. Don't toss the old recordings yet, keep them for a comparrison reference. If your first remake is much of an improvement at all they should all jump at the chance to record a better version of the rest.
 
At this point they all know that I want to re-track everything but they think it will set us back even more. In reality we didn't spend that much time tracking. The drums were done in one take and my bass parts were done on my own time. There are two songs with the lead vocals done but the singer is good and it won't be much to re do. The guitar player struggles in the studio and I think the sounds he used were not right for the songs. He went with his heavy distortion sound for songs that are not so heavy.
I have had a lot of time to listen to these tracks and I know every little problem and it drives me crazy.
I didn't mention this before but the drummer used a piccolo snare and I really find it hard tame. I didn't have much time to work with it before we hit the record button so the result was a very cutting sound with no life to it and no matter what I do with it EQ wise I just can't fix it. I compressed the crap out of it and pulled it back in the mix but it still just doesn't sound right.
 
EdWonbass said:
At this point they all know that I want to re-track everything but they think it will set us back even more. In reality we didn't spend that much time tracking. The drums were done in one take and my bass parts were done on my own time. There are two songs with the lead vocals done but the singer is good and it won't be much to re do. The guitar player struggles in the studio and I think the sounds he used were not right for the songs. He went with his heavy distortion sound for songs that are not so heavy.
I have had a lot of time to listen to these tracks and I know every little problem and it drives me crazy.
I didn't mention this before but the drummer used a piccolo snare and I really find it hard tame. I didn't have much time to work with it before we hit the record button so the result was a very cutting sound with no life to it and no matter what I do with it EQ wise I just can't fix it. I compressed the crap out of it and pulled it back in the mix but it still just doesn't sound right.
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Let them hear the tracks with the offending parts a little "enhanced", or just a decible or two above the rest of the mix. Then they will want to retrack.
 
Rokket said:
Let them hear the tracks with the offending parts a little "enhanced", or just a decible or two above the rest of the mix. Then they will want to retrack.
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I thought about that. There is this real annoying guitar track in the verse in one of the songs that is like finger nails on the chalkboard. First of all the tone is bad and the guitar's intonation is off and it sounds like shit. If I boost that, the drummer and singer might just quit the band. :D
We have a gig tonight and I think I will talk to them again. This time no beating around the bush.
 
Don't be diplomatic about it. Don't tell them that the tracks are 'under par' or 'not so good'. Or they might start thinking its salvagable. Just tell them that the tracks sound like shit and are completely unpresentable. And tell them its not their fault, and its just that you weren't using such good equipment back then etc etc.

I recently had the same situation. Luckily I don't have a band to explain it to, but I'm in the process of re-recording a bunch of stuff I did last year because I just admitted to myself that not only my equipment but my knowledge was a lot lot less than what I have now. All my tracks were recorded direct, and waaaay too hot, my drums weren't done as a well and my bass tracks sucked.

Tell them that if they redo it they will be glad they did.
 
legionserial said:
Don't be diplomatic about it. Don't tell them that the tracks are 'under par' or 'not so good'. Or they might start thinking its salvagable. Just tell them that the tracks sound like shit and are completely unpresentable. And tell them its not their fault, and its just that you weren't using such good equipment back then etc etc.

I recently had the same situation. Luckily I don't have a band to explain it to, but I'm in the process of re-recording a bunch of stuff I did last year because I just admitted to myself that not only my equipment but my knowledge was a lot lot less than what I have now. All my tracks were recorded direct, and waaaay too hot, my drums weren't done as a well and my bass tracks sucked.

Tell them that if they redo it they will be glad they did.
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I see your point and I totally agree. The first time I mentioned re-tracking the guys were saying lets just finish what we have to get something out there. I personaly don't want to "just get something out there".
The other thing is that it is known by a lot of our fans and followers that we were recording this in my studio. I don't want my name on something that I don't feel was my best effort.
 
"The Best Policy"

I'd say don't try to trick or lie them into it.

Just play them the old tracks in the best light you can. Tell them you can do "X" better for "Y" effort, pointing out the good and bad along the way; reminding them that this will be the public face of their band and that there is only one chance to make a first impression. Then let them decide.

G.
 
I'm gonna take a different side here and suggest you possibly leave the tracks "as-is." Your playing/recording/mixing skills will continue to change over time and you will often find your old recordings unlistenable. You'll ask yourself, "how could I have ever been so stupid as to do it 'that way?'" If you constantly go back and tinker/redo, however, you will never move forward. And, frankly, while the errors may be glaring to you, most of your listeners will never notice.

I tend to think of recordings as "snapshots" of a moment in time for me, as a musician, songwriter, pseudo-recording engineer, etc. For all their flaws, they captured something in a unique way that would be difficult to recreate. Why not just vow to make your next album even better with all that you've learned?
 
scrubs said:
I'm gonna take a different side here and suggest you possibly leave the tracks "as-is." Your playing/recording/mixing skills will continue to change over time and you will often find your old recordings unlistenable. You'll ask yourself, "how could I have ever been so stupid as to do it 'that way?'" If you constantly go back and tinker/redo, however, you will never move forward. And, frankly, while the errors may be glaring to you, most of your listeners will never notice.

I tend to think of recordings as "snapshots" of a moment in time for me, as a musician, songwriter, pseudo-recording engineer, etc. For all their flaws, they captured something in a unique way that would be difficult to recreate. Why not just vow to make your next album even better with all that you've learned?
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I would agree with you on some counts there but it depends on whether the old work is part of an ongoing project or not. In my case it is. And the stuff I made a year ago, I love the tunes, but I really hate the sound of them. So I decided it was time to redo them. If those tracks were part of an already finished project, I would have left them as is, but seeing as, a year on, I found myself remixing them and remixing them again and still not happy, I don't even count each individual tune as finished.

I really enjoy tracking anyway so to me its an excuse to do it. :)

I have some tunes I made like 5 years ago (before I had a 5 year hiatus from playing music altogether (beer and girls became a priority)) that I won't change, mainly because I'm making more refined music now than I was back then...
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'd say don't try to trick or lie them into it.

Just play them the old tracks in the best light you can. Tell them you can do "X" better for "Y" effort, pointing out the good and bad along the way; reminding them that this will be the public face of their band and that there is only one chance to make a first impression. Then let them decide.

G.
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I have been epxplaining to them what I could do better but they think it sounds pretty good. :confused:
 
scrubs said:
I'm gonna take a different side here and suggest you possibly leave the tracks "as-is." Your playing/recording/mixing skills will continue to change over time and you will often find your old recordings unlistenable. You'll ask yourself, "how could I have ever been so stupid as to do it 'that way?'" If you constantly go back and tinker/redo, however, you will never move forward. And, frankly, while the errors may be glaring to you, most of your listeners will never notice.

I tend to think of recordings as "snapshots" of a moment in time for me, as a musician, songwriter, pseudo-recording engineer, etc. For all their flaws, they captured something in a unique way that would be difficult to recreate. Why not just vow to make your next album even better with all that you've learned?
Click to expand...

In a way I just want to finish the thing up and move on but since it isn't finished I feel like I want to go back and try it again. We haven't been doing any writing so I don't know when we will record again.
 
I did this recently, I'm not even in the band. We started a recording while my pre's were on their way to me (upgraded from a Spirit Folio SX mixer to a Mackie 800r). We agreed that the first night would be setting up mics, getting general sounds, maybe a test track or two. We got a couple of takes for each of the songs.

The guy that runs the band and I were going through some tracks after the Mackie came, and he was concerned that some of the earlier takes sounded better. I explained that was because I had started mixing the old tracks, there was EQ and compression all over the place. I was able to strip the tracks back down, and he heard the difference right away.

If needed, I would have just refused to use the old stuff, which was essentially what I said when we started discussing it. Grow a pair, and put your foot down.
 
EdWonbass said:
I have been epxplaining to them what I could do better but they think it sounds pretty good. :confused:
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Then move on. Even if you did manage to cajole them into re-doing it, their "don't really care" attitude will come across in the new recordings.

If any band is not ready to (re)record, then they are indeed not ready to (re)record in more ways than they imagine.

G.
 
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