scales

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Nicole_Rose

Nicole_Rose

Great White North Girl
I've been expanding my knowledge of scales. harmonic minor, melodic minor etc. i'm looking for a scale that is good for playing over the heavy stuff, something dark. anyone have any suggestions? i heard mention of a japanese scale that is all the rage for lead playing in the heavy stuff-- anyone know it?

thanks:)
 
Nicole_Rose said:
I've been expanding my knowledge of scales. harmonic minor, melodic minor etc. i'm looking for a scale that is good for playing over the heavy stuff, something dark. anyone have any suggestions? i heard mention of a japanese scale that is all the rage for lead playing in the heavy stuff-- anyone know it?

thanks:)
Click to expand...
Find a piece of music that compares and break down the chord structure.
It seems easy at times to put the cart in front,but with out knowing the
breakdown on the the chords-FUBAR.Learn as many chords as you can,
and scales/modes will be second nature to you.
If you can hear it in your head,you can play it.It's rock and roll,not rocket
science.
 
SHEPPARDB. said:
Find a piece of music that compares and break down the chord structure.
It seems easy at times to put the cart in front,but with out knowing the
breakdown on the the chords-FUBAR.Learn as many chords as you can,
and scales/modes will be second nature to you.
If you can hear it in your head,you can play it.It's rock and roll,not rocket
science.
Click to expand...
Easy for you to say...I'm just the fumbling assistant..:D
 
I find Dorian mode to be dark and interesting, but really each mode has its own attitude and feel, all can be used in interesting ways.

And they all have cool names. :D
 
dorian is probably the most used mode... a whole lotta jazz is built off of it... and the progression of ii V7 I.... a good understanding of modes can lead to the ability to see the commonality of the keys for adjacent chords... one of the big keys to improvisation... to be able to see the common keys for chords 1-2/2-3/3-4 etc shows real fluency...
 
Try minor pentatonic, they aren't just for blues. And if you aren't a great guitarist they are easy to learn.
 
castlerock said:
hey nicole. this is a cool little java program i like to use when i'm exploring new scales. Guitar Codex Plus.


enjoy.
Click to expand...

Thanks Castlerock :) that's a handy little program. that will be very helpful. i can't figure out if it has that japanese scale i mentioned though, cause i don't know the name of it.

legionserial said:
Check out this site....

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/

Especially the section on modes. Even a simple major scale can work wonders in the right mode.
Click to expand...

yeah i know that site well. and i know my modes. i just don't think i know how to use them properly. if anyone here has a clear idea of how to use modes and what they are for, i'd appreciate an explanation :)


Dani Pace said:
Try minor pentatonic, they aren't just for blues. And if you aren't a great guitarist they are easy to learn.
Click to expand...

i know the minor pentatonic well. as well as the major scale the natural minor and the blues scale. i'm looking for something a bit more exotic.

the melodic minor scale impresses me. it's different going up than down. hard to wrap my head around. but it has potential for lot's of cool sounds in minor keys :) i think it's fascinating. :)
 
The Japanese scale you are referring to would be the Kumoi.

it has the following formula:1, b2, 4, 5, b6. Which means: 1=root, b2=minor second, 4= perfect fourth, 5= perfect fifth, b6 is a minor sixth. It is a neutral scale meaning not major or minor. The flat 2nd and flat 6th would suggest minor. It can be used in conjunction or instead of the Phrygian mode and/with it's relative chords.

I have to say scales aren't a grab bag of notes that can be used everywhere. As stated above you really need to learn why a certain scale goes with a certain progression.
 
look into the phrygian scale. it's nice

some others...

arabic scale

C-Db-E-F-G-Ab-B-c

diminished scale - just go whole half whole half.

C D Eb F Gb Ab A B C
 
Nicole_Rose said:
yeah i know that site well. and i know my modes. i just don't think i know how to use them properly. if anyone here has a clear idea of how to use modes and what they are for, i'd appreciate an explanation :)
Click to expand...

This is where chord scales come in. A simplified explanation....

If you look at your modes....

1. Ionian - root is the 1st
2. Dorian - root is the 2nd
3. Phrygian - root is the 3rd
4. Lydian - root is the 4th
5. Mixolydian - root is the 5th
6. Aeolian - root is the 6th
7. Locrian - root is the 7th

I guess you know that though...but..

A lot of it is about what a chord progression resolves to.

If it resolves to I...Ionian
If it resolves to II...Dorian
If it resolves to iii...Phrygian
If it resolves to IV...Lydian
If it resolves to V...Mixolydian
If it resolves to vi...Aeolian
If it resolves to VII...Locrian....however VII is hard to resolve to.

You see the connection...

I - 1st mode
II - 2nd mode
iii - 3rd mode
IV - 4th mode
V -5th mode
vi - 6th mode
VII - 7th mode

At least that's my understanding of it anyway. The last part of the modes section in the link I posted 'Application' explains it better.

However, I'm no expert...I don't play a lot of solos, and in my own music they aren't improvised by the time I record them. I tend to jam on whatever I'm trying to solo over until I come up with a solo that really works. I generally switch around the harmonic minor and minor pentatonic scales, and dorian mode. I mostly play metal, and it seems to wok for me.
 
I'm one of those self thought guys, I can play almost anything I want to by ear and I don't know very many scales. It's a different way of doing things but I just listen to the rhythm track then imagine the solo I want to hear then work it out note by note.

It's not easy to get started this way, you really need to train your ear over the entire fretboard and eventually you will be able to 'see' the tones. The good thing about this method is that you don't get trapped into only playing by a strict set of rules. As a result your lead becomes a bit more exotic. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone but it works for me (it all depends on how your mind is wired for learning). If you get bewildered try forgeting about theory and try just using your ear.

I would be lying if I said I never worked out a scale but once I work out an octave at one position in any key then I can play it anywhere over the entire fretboard. It's like one of those mental games of memory, people learn by associating one thing with another - I do this by associating a tone with a visual fretboard position (rather than a note name, fret number, tab or by notation).

By all means learn theory but if you hit a brick wall it's not the end of the world, you can get around theory by shifting how you perceive the fretboard.
Just my 2c's, best of luck learning either way!
 
dorian is a minor mode

ii..not II

natural minor with raised 6.

don't think of a mode as in another key. if it's dorian sounding, it's dorian.

so don't think of playing an E minor chord as the iii chord of C. you're using the same notes as C, but you're in phrygian.

just make the E minor where your cadences gravitate towards and play an e phrygian scale with whatever chords use the same notes. so try a drop D...play open D then first fret...do some dark chugga chugga stuff...and noodle around in your D phrygian or D arabian scale. it'll sound nice and dark
 
Superhuman said:
I'm one of those self thought guys, I can play almost anything I want to by ear and I don't know very many scales. It's a different way of doing things but I just listen to the rhythm track then imagine the solo I want to hear then work it out note by note.

It's not easy to get started this way, you really need to train your ear over the entire fretboard and eventually you will be able to 'see' the tones. The good thing about this method is that you don't get trapped into only playing by a strict set of rules. As a result your lead becomes a bit more exotic. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone but it works for me (it all depends on how your mind is wired for learning). If you get bewildered try forgeting about theory and try just using your ear.

I would be lying if I said I never worked out a scale but once I work out an octave at one position in any key then I can play it anywhere over the entire fretboard. It's like one of those mental games of memory, people learn by associating one thing with another - I do this by associating a tone with a visual fretboard position (rather than a note name, fret number, tab or by notation).
Click to expand...

That's exactly how it works for me too. Visualizing the notes. Then again, I don't invest enough time into it to really learn theory. Theory never hurts, I'm sure.
 
cello_pudding said:
dorian is a minor mode

ii..not II
Click to expand...

Doh!

Thanks. I really hate dishing out misinformation.... It's been so long since I learnt this stuff that I have notes stuck to my monitor to jog my memory. I was sitting too far away from my monitor and read II instead of ii lol. Pretty lame of me really that I should be reading it all from notes and regurgitating it, but doing so also makes it stick in my head better. And being corrected on stuff generally ensures that I never forget :)
 
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