scales and modes for blues? (SRV style)

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dabluesman

dabluesman

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I know the pentatonic and blues scales, but what other scales and !modes! should I learn to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and Kenny Wayne Shepherd? I have found many sites with scale and mode charts, but I dont know which ones are used for SRV style blues music. Thanks!
 
I would say it's mostly Dorian with the Pentatonic derived from that. That's a simplification. You should learn or at least be familiar with all of the modes.
 
I think SRV and other blues styles rely mostly on the blues scale and their trademark sound is mainly attributable to their unique phrasing and technique. It also helps to have a strat and an organic sounding tube amp. I could be wrong but I don't think SRV thought a whole lot about what mode he was playing in. He may have known but he was a feel/soulful player (seems like all the great ones are).
 
dabluesman,

Yeah, with what you've already got you pretty much have all the scalar stuff covered for this style of music. Cop some licks, get yourself a good vibrato if you haven't already and learn which notes sound good bent and slurred, hammered or pulled rather than picked, etc. And listen, listen, listen! Besides the guys you mention check out the real sources -- particularly Albert King, BB King, Buddy Guy, T-Bone Walker... and other extenders/adapters like Hendrix, Clapton, Mike Bloomfield, Peter Green, Mick Taylor... Play around for hours day after day and lo and behold, one day, you'll be there.

-AlChuck
 
Well, the beginning of Blues is listening I think. The Blues and pentatonic scales are the bases, but they only sound great when you know how to 'phrase' them.
Myself, I've also played along with almost every blues record I have. Learn to use bendings and follow the question and answer in your solo. After a lot of pracitise, you'll find that you can more easily add notes from other modes in your solos.

Good Luck!
 
One thing you probably realize about modes of a scale is that they all make the same shape accross a twelve fret distance, its just were you start the shape of the whole thing. Amin/Cmaj is the same as Emin/Gmaj eccept that the shape on the fingerboard has beed moved up by 5 frets.
The only way to be a really complete musician is to learn at least all of the diatonic modes that way with a little practice you can hear the scale in your head and your fingers will just go there.
You can bet your ass SRV and alot of others know ther way around the modes but being blues Id say all the minor scales and Penta minor is what is most common with a little bit of chromatics thrown in.
Theres lots of different blues scales out there. I dont know if you know them or not. Ill give you two common ones for improvising. There basically modes with certain notes sharpened or flated, or two modes placed on top of each other to add an extra note.

Heres a six note

Root-b3-4-b5-5-b7-Octave

Heres a very chromatic scale

Root-b3-3-4-b5-5-b7-Octave

Heres one thats like Phrygian layed on top of Locrian with the b2 left out.

Root-b3-4-b5-5-b6-b7-Octave

These will remind you of a little more rootsy blues playing from the older guys but they are still great scales and get lots of play today.
 
One aspect of SRV's playing that has little to do with what scale one is playing,and which he shared with one of his obvious mentors Jimi Hendrix,is strong hands developed through many hours of playing.Nope,more than that....not yet...I'm talking falling asleep in bed or elsewhere still working a bend,etc.There's a certain tone that can't be dialed in,even with identical equipment.it comes from the way your hands and fingers grip and push the instrument,which I feel is a cornerstone of that particular style of playing.You'll hear it when you start getting there...Cheers!
 
Mixolydian is a major scale. Satch and Vai use it a lot, very melodic sounding mode.

Keep in mind that SRV used 13 guage strings tuned to 430. I had a instructor years ago, BIG black guy and he played with big strings.
He could do those blues bends/vibrato that make you weak in the knees. Comes from doing it for 20 years. Fatter strings fatter tone.
KWS also uses 13's.
 
Krystof01, I often tune my guitar down half a step and slap on a SRV cd and jam along. Sometimes I'll get going so good that he'll stop playing and leave me to finish it solo ;) But seriously, once I find what key he's playing in, I'll do the blues scale with flatted 5th's. I figured out Texas Flood and I'm Crying (or whatever that name is) this way. And your right, it does seem to un-lock as it goes on. I just feel that to play "like" him I need to know the scales he's playing. I watch him on video and it seems that he does go out of the standard "box" some. I would really like to figure out his rythum too, not just the runns and notes but the chords as well. Does anyone know where I can find out about SRV's chords and rythum's? I've found some of them by fretting notes in the blues scale and playing them as chords, anyother ideas? Thanks guys, you all are a big help :)

[This message has been edited by dabluesman (edited 07-19-2000).]
 
dan, I know the 6 note Pentatonic Blues scale up, down, forwards and backwards, bends & slides... Do you know where I can find a scale chart for the chromatic scale and the "like Phrygian layed on top of Locrian with the b2 left out" scale that you mentioned? As of yesterday I started messing around with the Harmonic Minor scale. It is pretty but doesn't have much of a blues sound, I think it's more classical (Yngwie) sounding. I'll probably keep pratcing it though, I may need to use it some day.
 
dabluesman-put on a SRV song, close your eyes holding your favourite guitar and just pretend to play-its a lot easier and takes no time at all.

No really what you want to try if you don't already is to experiment playing along with some tracks. The aim is not to get it note for note, more about learning how the music is phrased and if you percevire for long enough it will seem to un-lock. Virtual.ray is right in what he says, you learn the hard way through the effort invested. It may sound stupid but it really is about feeling the music, not paying attention to the box your playing within.

By the way-Isnt the Mixolydian mode is the most bluesy.
 
Mixolydian is a major scale.

This is not exactly true. There is only one major scale and all of the normal modes are derived from it The Aeolian mode is actually what we call minor. Mixolydian has a one note difference from the true major scale. The 7th is flatted giving the following formula:
W-W-W-H-W-H-W, where W is a whole step and H is a half step. The formula for a major scale is:
W-W-W-H-W-W-H.
 
I thought the formula for a major scale was
W-W-H-W-W-W-H.
BTW in case it wasn't answered in an earlier post a chromatic scale is all half steps.
 
In the pentatonic scales you are basically playing minor scales with notes dropped out.
Playing the minor third tnen immedialy follwing it with a major third gives the bluesy feel. Using a whole step on the b and
e strings instead of a step and a half as usual in a pentatonic is common and mixing the two together for different feels is a standard option. I never move from a major
third to a minor third in the scale as this
seems to detract from the feel, always from
a minor to a major even on the way back down
the scales.
 
Mixolydian has a major feel. Thats what I meant.
Ionian - The major scale
Dorian - minor feel
Phrygian - minor feel, latin sounding
Lydian - major feel
Mixolydian - major feel
Aeolian - Relative minor
Locrian - diminished

SRV used a lot of 7th's and 9th's in his chording. The blues scale sounds great over these chords.
 
-dabluesman

I'll give you his phone number if you really want it-I haven't spoken to him for a few weeks, is he still alive.
 
I switched to heavier strings about a year ago and it was hell at first. The set I changed to are the Dean Markely "Jazz" which are: 12/15/26(wound)/34/44/54 which I'm pretty sure is still not as heavy as what SRV was using (unless he was de-tuning). It really makes the tone a lot better especially for blues. To me the wound G is pretty key for getting that Muddy Waters/John Lee Hooker sound. My hands were achin' like crazy for a while but now I could never go back. One article I read by SRV's tech was talking about how his strings were so heavy that when they'd break sometimes they'd take a chunk of skin with them. I've also started playing slide a lot more. Just slide a wooden matchstick under the strings until it's wedged against the nut and voila! Yer strings are at just the right height for slide playing, plus you get a little bit of damping which can be cool.
 
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