Santana?? Am I missing something???

[jimistone]

hey king elvis....weren't you the one that started the Jimi Hendrix bashing thread a while back?

you're hell on guitarists from the 60's...to tell you the truth, thats my favorite era of guitar players.

I agree that Santana has the same tired old licks now as he did in his heyday....(ya know that bring a 300 lb drugged out Elvis to mind...still singing "love me tender" and "hound dog" in the late 70's)

show me a performer that doesn't have the same old licks and style and i'll show you a generic musician who never made it be cause he dosen't have a signature sound that identifies him.

Santana is one of those guitarists who you can identify on the radio after 2 bars of a song.......some call it "tired on lick" while other call it "signature sound"

i've never been a huge santana fan but i like his stuff.

 

[eyeslikefire]

Re: RE: Tito Puente

Tito was pissed off at first when Santana covered him. Years of royalty checks changed his mind. Still, what if instead of getting big money off of one song, he got them off every song he cut? What if there had been a Puente album with Elvis and Buddy Holly and Pasty Cline and Sam Cooke and Nat Cole? That's what Santana has done.

Tito was pissed? Don't they have to have the permission before the cover is done?
The only Tito Puente song that Santana did was "Para los Rumberos" which was on Santana III.
Tito also covered Santana with "Oye como ya" Not sure what year.

 

[King Elvis]

hey king elvis....weren't you the one that started the Jimi Hendrix bashing thread a while back?

you're hell on guitarists from the 60's...to tell you the truth, thats my favorite era of guitar players.

First off, the thread that you are referring too was not a Hendrix bashing thread. As a matter of fact, it turned into a Jimi-lovefest that you should be proud of. Asking questions and getting opinions from you guys helps me to reapproach these artists from a different perspective. I never said that I didnt LIKE Jimi, quite the contrary since I own a number of Hendrix CD's. I am usually questioning their relevence to musicians of today. YOUR input is very valuable because I see that, in fact, they are still very relevent to todays musician. I view the folks on these boards as todays musicians, not some 18 year old kid playing in Blink-no69 or whatever. My dissappointment with Santana is this: he is a legend that has crafted some legendary music over the years. Why then does he feel that he has to play with 18 year old bubble-gum artists to get his music heard?? Jimi wouldnt have done it, Page doesnt do it, Alvin Lee doesnt do it, Clapton doesnt do it, Keef doesnt do it...and these guys are viewed as guitar gods just as much as Carlos.

 

[dafduc]

Re: Re: RE: Tito Puente

Tito was pissed? Don't they have to have the permission before the cover is done?

They only require permission if (a) the song hasn't already been in general release, or (b) they change the melody or lyrics. Otherwise they only have to pay the usual royalties, no permission to record/release required.

Tito also covered Santana with "Oye como ya" Not sure what year. [/B]

"Oye Como Va" was Puente's originally. Check out this link to ASCAP's bio of Tito. Carlos was still in high school in '63, I think.

We used to annoy dancers by segueing some throwaway Gloria Estefan ballad into Santana's version of Oye Como Va. They'd try and hang with it for 30-45 seconds, shoot us a dirty look, and give up. Damned arrogant of us, looking back now...

 

[eyeslikefire]

Re: Re: Re: RE: Tito Puente

They only require permission if (a) the song hasn't already been in general release, or (b) they change the melody or lyrics. Otherwise they only have to pay the usual royalties, no permission to record/release required.



"Oye Como Va" was Puente's originally. Check out this link to ASCAP's bio of Tito. Carlos was still in high school in '63, I think.

We used to annoy dancers by segueing some throwaway Gloria Estefan ballad into Santana's version of Oye Como Va. They'd try and hang with it for 30-45 seconds, shoot us a dirty look, and give up. Damned arrogant of us, looking back now...

My bad.
Para los Rumberos was also written by Tito
Thanks for the info.

 

[eyeslikefire]

Why then does he feel that he has to play with 18 year old bubble-gum artists to get his music heard?? Jimi wouldnt have done it, Page doesnt do it, Alvin Lee doesnt do it, Clapton doesnt do it, Keef doesnt do it...and these guys are viewed as guitar gods just as much as Carlos.

Maybe,...
Just maybe,
It's all about the $$$$$BENJAMINS$$$$$....

But maybe I'm wrong... I dunno.

 

[djc]

Yes, it's the same old lick, but he puts so much soul into bending that string, it never gets old.

 

[jimistone]

Elvis
Why then does he feel that he has to play with 18 year old bubble-gum artists to get his music heard?? Jimi wouldnt have done it, Page doesnt do it, Alvin Lee doesnt do it, Clapton doesnt do it, Keef doesnt do it...and these guys are viewed as guitar gods just as much as Carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


if i thought doing an album with bubblegum pop stars would amount to massive album sales, bring my music to a new generation of rock fans, put me back on top, solidifiy my position and priority level with the record company, put a grammy on the wall and a huge amount of money in my pocket...damn right i would do it.

do you realize how many of the all time great artists from santanas generation can't even get a record deal? would they pass on a project like that because of "artistic integrety"...hell no...it would be "bubblegum city"

that one album took carlos santana from oldies act to mainstream in one brushstroke.

 

[Lopp]

My dissappointment with Santana is this: he is a legend that has crafted some legendary music over the years. Why then does he feel that he has to play with 18 year old bubble-gum artists to get his music heard?? Jimi wouldnt have done it, Page doesnt do it, Clapton doesnt do it

These guys didn't sell out? That's funny.

Jimi?
Died before he had the chance.

Clapton?
Rewrote a song for a beer commercial.

Page?
Put out an album with a Plant wannabe singer who was popular at the time: David Coverdale.


Hell, I wish I could "sell out" in the music biz.

 

[King Elvis]

These guys didn't sell out? That's funny.

Jimi?
Died before he had the chance.

Clapton?
Rewrote a song for a beer commercial.

Page?
Put out an album with a Plant wannabe singer who was popular at the time: David Coverdale.


Hell, I wish I could "sell out" in the music biz.

Dude
I dont remember using the word "sellout" in my post once. I never said that Carlos sold out...ok, yes I did, but not in that terminology. I just hate the state that music is in today. I think with latin rhythms and stuff being so popular these days Carlos could get the band together and do some great stuff. I guess since I make no money with my music I am still one of those people who believes in musical integity over dollars. I am sure that there are a ton of great people who would like to work with Carlos, but who do we get?? Michelle Branch?? Faith Hill?? Rob Thomas?? Come on dudes, that stuff is LAME. The only thing that even sells that stuff is BECAUSE they worked with Carlos. I could understand if he had that hit with Thomas and used that to make a true Santana comeback album, but he continues to go for the money. Its like when everybody did that duets album with Sinatra.

 

[Even]

wait.... lets not forget (as much as you want to) the Page Puff-daddy fiasco!

 

[Even]

and actually, I gather that the sway of this thread is an issue of "selling out".

The whole concept of "selling out" is generally interpretive to the (in most cases jaded) fan base. Maybe folks are not so much selling out as they are evolving and yes, making a living.

It's true that it would be great if everyone just played what they wanted to 100% of the time, but if its your livelihood you need to be prepared to work with the market.

We do it a million times in our lives, change jobs or locations or partners based on currant compatability. Are you selling out when you take a new position at work? Generally the boys on the first floor (who wish they made that income) will say yes sellout!

 

[Bass Freak]

ive always thought santanas stuff all sounded the same. doesnt matter what song, all sounded the same. thats the kind of problem i have with alot of bands that arent versatile. or that just over use the same licks and chords, sure it might be called thier style, but to me it sounds like they cant figure anything new out. carlos is a great guitar player, ill give him that, but as a whole, its the same over and over...

just like metallica


freak

 

[LocusLarsen]

Screw all this....I am dying my hair blue, getting a mohawk, and moving to San Fransanciscoboshmo ah I can't spell it.

It was funny.

 

[Stratomaster]

Carlos is cool-the man never has a bad word for anybody! I saw him live in the mid 90's and was waaaaay impressed-he's got a big bag of tricks (besides the dorian scale). As far as the "selling out" stuff-I guess Carlos is really a sideman at heart-and I imagine after so long in the biz-thousands of gigs and dozens of albums, working with the latest hotshots must be a good way to keep things interesting.

 

[fprod south]

Not saying I blame Carlos, but I see what Elvis is saying here. I saw Santana play with Wayne Shorter in the late '80s. I'd rather see him doing that kind of collaboration. But would that pay the bills? I don't think anyone who listens to mainstream radio (i.e. MTV) even knows who Wayne Shorter is.

 

[jimistone]

king Elvis

now you're saying that with latin rythems being so popular you would have thought that carlos could do some great stuff instead of the bubblegum artist thing.

you started this thread on the premise of "i don't get it" when it came to carlos being a great guitar player.

now you're saying he can be great

he has done album after album after album after album ect ect of great latin rythem stuff.

he was probably ready for something different.

 

[eyeslikefire]

Screw all this....I am dying my hair blue, getting a mohawk, and moving to San Fransanciscoboshmo ah I can't spell it.

It was funny.

LOL!!

 

[Shinobi]

Well he's famous,your not King Elvis, and neither am I, and he's still making money,, so he must be doing something right!
Give the guy some creidt or something

 

[King Elvis]

king Elvis

now you're saying that with latin rythems being so popular you would have thought that carlos could do some great stuff instead of the bubblegum artist thing.

you started this thread on the premise of "i don't get it" when it came to carlos being a great guitar player.

now you're saying he can be great

he has done album after album after album after album ect ect of great latin rythem stuff.

he was probably ready for something different.

What you are saying is true, but the reason that I like this forum and folks like yourself is that, as I have said before, you guys help me look at things from a different prespective. If I dont get something and then you guys give me your views to the contrary it lets me approach it from a different angle and thus changes my view.