Routing Microphones for Live Recording

[DM60]

I am setting up to go record live groups and I want to have my stuff together as much as possible so I don't get in the way of the band and get a good recording.

So, I have the drum micing worked out, set of Audix F series mics I picked up on e-bay using clips for all but the OHs. 5 will come on 1/4, the 2 condensers for the OHs on XLR. They may not be the best, but for a starter kit, they should be OK.

For the Guitar amps, I plan on using some Sure 58's on the amps (up to 3) hanging down to the speaker (I am trying to avoid extra mic stands so the stage doesn't get too crowded).

Now, for the vocals and if there are acoustics, I was going to use their mics (their being who ever I am recording). I was either going to come off the board if it has that capability, or split the cable, one for board one for interface.

Here is the question, I assume most bands do not use mics that require Phantom. But if they do and I split, would the board provide the power and would the splitter cause any issues with the mic in regards to Phantom power.

Hopefully my question is clear. I am making sure I have as much information before I go out and can focus on mic placement and level.

Thanks for any feedback you provide.

 

[Farview]

Ussually, all thr mics would go to the front of house mixer and you would take a direct out from each channel on the board. In bigger settings, you would take feeds off of the monitor board.

You really should put the 58's on stands. If you hang them, they are facing the ground, not the speaker, so they will sound strange because the sound is coming from the side of the mic which is where the mic starts rejecting sound.

You cannot simply use a Y cable to split mic signals, you certainly can't run phantom power that way. When mic signals need to be split, you would use a split snake. This is a snake that has a second set of transformer isolated outputs for recording or other such things.

 

[DM60]

Ussually, all thr mics would go to the front of house mixer and you would take a direct out from each channel on the board. In bigger settings, you would take feeds off of the monitor board.

You really should put the 58's on stands. If you hang them, they are facing the ground, not the speaker, so they will sound strange because the sound is coming from the side of the mic which is where the mic starts rejecting sound.

You cannot simply use a Y cable to split mic signals, you certainly can't run phantom power that way. When mic signals need to be split, you would use a split snake. This is a snake that has a second set of transformer isolated outputs for recording or other such things.

On the mic stands, I get your point and it makes sense, I will rethink that. Could I use the small floor stands like what is used on a kick drum? That way the stand is out of the way.

OK, I appreciate that heads up on the splitter. Using the snake box (I am assuming that is what you are talking about), should solve any problem with splitting the mics. I am thinking some of the smaller bands will not have boards with individual outs.

Thanks again for the information.

 

[Farview]

A snake box and a splitter snake box are two different things. The splitter box is horrifically expensive compared to a normal snake.

You can use small stands, you can also use standard boom stands by placing the stand next to the cabinet and using the boom to place the mic in front.

For low budget stuff, it would just be easier for you to mic everything up yourself, separately from thr PA system. Thats what they used to do a long time ago. That is why you see old concert footage from the 60's and early 70's where the singer is singing into two mics duct taped together. On was for the recording, the other for the PA.

 

[Farview]

Another idea. Most mixers have inserts, if you make some cables that let you tap off the inserts, you can create direct outs for nearly any mixer.

 

[DM60]

Another idea. Most mixers have inserts, if you make some cables that let you tap off the inserts, you can create direct outs for nearly any mixer.

If I use inserts, wouldn't need a loopback?

 

[Farview]

If you make your cables, you can just connect the tip and sleeve on the trs side to the tip on the ts side, that will complete the loop.

The trs side will go into the insert, the ts side will go into your interface.

 

[rob aylestone]

Been doing this for years for live works and TV splits. The only issue with passive splits is the phantom voltage. Most, but not all desks are quite happy working with a phantom supply coming up the cable, but others react quite poorly, and it's not a make thing, as some models work ok and some don't. Some mixers have no audio issue, like most of the Soundcraft live sound mixers, but they do tend to do very odd things with the led metering, as in it goes mad and indicates full scale. Other makes have destructive preamp blocking, where the capacitors charge up and the signal vanishes over a few seconds, then. Restores then cuts again. I've not had any mixers damaged by phantom, as I suspect that as they are protected from the 48v they produce themselves, the voltage coming up the line from the passive split isn't electronically harmful. I've seen a few systems where the cure for the phantom issue was very simple, just lifting pin 1 in the xlr, the pin 2 to pin 3 differential carrying the audio, and with no pin 1 connection current has nowhere to flow. Outside broadcasts usually involved transformers in the splits simply to add electrical isolation. The function of the transformers is not understood that well generally and the manufacturers have useful data on their websites. People often assume it protects against shorts killing the audio, but a short is still pretty destructive as the transformer couples it to the other line, as a whopping load.

All this said, I see far more passive splits now, and some just have capacitors to block the DC voltage. Others don't even bother. My old analogue systems have a mix of Yamaha and Soundcraft, and as long as I supply phantom from the Soundcraft, they work fine with phantom.

Bands who play the medium size festivals often use simple y splits. My own band use them too for this. If we play a festival where a PA is supplied, but we have the option to use our own monitoring, then we have some straight splits with two metres of cable from the xlr female, for the mic, to two xlr plugs. When it's a quick changeover, we simply pull out the PA company's xlr from our four vocal mics, insert our splitter, and then put their xlr into one of our split ends. We use the other to go to our mixer, stage side for our monitors. We do the same to guitar and bass and usually just the drum overhead. The PA company aren't impacted on at all. It works perfectly.

On the insert system, this too has been handy for quite a while now for people who have something like a 24 track hd recorder in their foh rack. Using the inserts, with the tip and sleeve joined in the plug, and this connected to the recorder works very well. The drawback is that the insert is then used up. Some people just remote the insert to a patch bay, so they can patch in eq and effects if they wish, with the out connection routed to the recorder. This is how we worked for many years. The main issue is channel gain. The person mixing may have too much or too little gain, and any change to the gain affects the recording, which can be fixed, but it's a pain. Occasionally they will also not notice over level distortion in the mix, but the recording suffers.

I agree with the advice to put the mics on stands, but for physical reasons not aural ones. Dangling the mic down can produce some really nasty noises as it vibrates against the speaker grill. If you can space it away, it's ok. I sometimes slip a roll of insulating tape onto the sm57 and this swings it out vertically enough to not bounce around. The difference in tone between an edge position, face on to the central position is immense. Warm and dark vs bright and clean. Dangling a mic like a 57 down so it's grill is next to the cone edge sounds very close to the edge position, facing in. Dropping it down closer to the centre increases warmth. Not to the extent of the centre position facing in, but pretty close. If you want to dangle, the best mic is a side fire type. Bands do use plenty of condensers, or at least mine does. I may have a condenser on the bass and guitar, definitely a couple as overheads, and one or two on vocalists who need a bit more top end.