I've been fighting with recording my guitar for months now. Everything else in my mixes are axactly how i want it. I was wondering what you would do. I have a huge room (high ceilings and its also very long). I've tried just micing it(sm58, sm57, sennenheiser??,and whatever else i have). Mostly a sm58 in front for the highs, and one in the back to get lows. I usually get a nasty room sound that i hate. I cant get rid of it by throwing some reverb on it. Im shore many have faced this so someone give me some options! I love the sound i get from the amp playing it normal (fender somthing or another, about 65 watts i think). I've also tried to smother it with thick blankets but still no change. I've have also recorded through a behringer pre...got the best sound yet. Any help??
Room sound out of guitar mixes
- Thread starter tddrummer
- Start date
starbuck26
New member
Why don't you move the amp to another room?
Also... this business about recording from the back to get more lows? I hope you're flipping the phase of that mic if you're actually recording from the back of the amp.
Keep in mind, if you're sticking an SM57 or a 58 right up on the grill of that bad boy you are going to get what's called a proximity effect, which will accentuate some of the lows. Think of the boominess your voice gets when you stick a 58 in your mouth.
Are you recording the room as well?
So long as you close mic the amp and yank it to cab involvement I don't see why the room sound should be overpowering the amp sound...
Drop a pic of your mic placement.
Also... this business about recording from the back to get more lows? I hope you're flipping the phase of that mic if you're actually recording from the back of the amp.
Keep in mind, if you're sticking an SM57 or a 58 right up on the grill of that bad boy you are going to get what's called a proximity effect, which will accentuate some of the lows. Think of the boominess your voice gets when you stick a 58 in your mouth.
Are you recording the room as well?
So long as you close mic the amp and yank it to cab involvement I don't see why the room sound should be overpowering the amp sound...
Drop a pic of your mic placement.
WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
that makes me think--maybe the two mics are out of phase, and what he's hearing isn't is some funky phasing, and not the room.
'Cuz I gotta tell ya, I used to record in a bad room--and my electric guitar was the only thing I never had to worry about. Stuck a 57 up to the cloth and let 'er rip. No room sound at all.
'Cuz I gotta tell ya, I used to record in a bad room--and my electric guitar was the only thing I never had to worry about. Stuck a 57 up to the cloth and let 'er rip. No room sound at all.
starbuck26
New member
Tadpui
Well-known member
If you're getting too much of the room ambience in the mic, then move the mic closer to the speaker cone. Also, how loud are you recording? If you're recording at a low volume and/or micing the amp from a distance then you're going to get a higher ratio of room ambience.
I agree with the above posters, even in the worst of my house's rooms, the electric guitar is the one thing that doesn't pick up the room as much. Only when I use a second mic (usually a condensor of some sort) backed away from the amp do I start to get more room ambience mixed in.
I agree with the above posters, even in the worst of my house's rooms, the electric guitar is the one thing that doesn't pick up the room as much. Only when I use a second mic (usually a condensor of some sort) backed away from the amp do I start to get more room ambience mixed in.
gbdweller
Structural Member
Put the 58 away and use the 57. About two inches away from the grille and about 2-3 inches out from the center of the speaker cone is a good place to start. Avoid using 2 or more mics in homerecording situations. You are only asking for phase problems. Try recording distorted guitars twice and panning one take left and one take right for a fat and dynamic sound. Most important...experiment, experiment, experiment!!!...and write down everything you do for each take, so when you get it right, you'll remember what you did.
BTW in a home situation, you can isolate a guitar amp or speaker cabinet from a lot of the room sound by surrounding it with soft furniture and covering the whole mess with a mattress. Not pretty, but fairly effective.
BTW in a home situation, you can isolate a guitar amp or speaker cabinet from a lot of the room sound by surrounding it with soft furniture and covering the whole mess with a mattress. Not pretty, but fairly effective.
The thing is i've tried almost all suggested-same results...tried a diff. room-same problem...tried one mic (close and far)-same problem..maybe I'm just out of luck with the micing situation..any pre amp suggestions? I've also done the whole panning trick on all my mioxes but i still do have the room problem...maybe i should put a clip on here...
famous beagle
Well-known member
A few thoughts:
1) Just because he's put one mic behind the amp, he shouldn't necessarily flip the phase switch. There's no more chance of him having phase cancellation by having one mic behind and one in front than there is by having two in front.
2) By using blankets, matresses, soft furniture, etc., you will certainly kill room reflections, but you'll end up with a muddy sound because all of those things will only take care of the highs and leave the low mids and bass to build up. That's been my experience anyway.
1) Just because he's put one mic behind the amp, he shouldn't necessarily flip the phase switch. There's no more chance of him having phase cancellation by having one mic behind and one in front than there is by having two in front.
2) By using blankets, matresses, soft furniture, etc., you will certainly kill room reflections, but you'll end up with a muddy sound because all of those things will only take care of the highs and leave the low mids and bass to build up. That's been my experience anyway.
starbuck26
New member
post a pic of your mic placements.
eyema_believer
Bondservant
+1
And, how loud are you recording??
Like someone mentioned; if you record the amp at a low volume you could get more room.
~Shawn
IronFlippy
Dedicated To My Member
Further, it really depends on how far away the mike on the back is to speaker compared to the distance from the speaker to the mike on the front. If they're exactly the same distance, then you'll probably want to try flipping the polarity of one of them. Or you can make a truly analog phaser by moving one of the mikes towards and away from the speaker.
You might also want to lift the amp off the ground, especially if you have a reflective floor (wood, concrete, etc.). The phase issues with that will often be even worse than using 2 mikes, so it's definitely worth looking at.
If you can forget about one thing, it's gear. If you like the sound of your amp in that room and you have a 57, then the only thing getting in the way is mike placement, which often needs a lot of consideration, especially if you're using two mikes. I suggest starting with the front one, getting that to sound as good as possible, then bringing in the rear one to fill in.
wbcsound
New member
Follow these steps:
1) Face your amp into a corner (it will dramitically increase lows).
2) Put a piece of carpet under your amp.
3) Turn your amp up to giging volume.
4) Use a single mic right up on the grill.
5) Turn your reverb off.
6) Do not use a compressor when tracking.
7) Put a gate with a quick release on the recorded track.
Presto! No room sound.
1) Face your amp into a corner (it will dramitically increase lows).
2) Put a piece of carpet under your amp.
3) Turn your amp up to giging volume.
4) Use a single mic right up on the grill.
5) Turn your reverb off.
6) Do not use a compressor when tracking.
7) Put a gate with a quick release on the recorded track.
Presto! No room sound.
NL5
Unpossible!
Actually, they will be naturally 180 degrees from each other. Think about it for a second and you should understand why. I think you are confusing phase with polarity. Two mics out in front will have the same polarity, and various phase issues depending on placement. A mic in front and one in back will be polarity reversed, as well as the various phase issues related to their positions.
Pointing an amp into a corner will give it MUCH more room sound (hence the bass buildup, or cancellation depending on where it's placed.
famous beagle
Well-known member
I don't think that's right about the phase thing. The out-of phase problem isn't directional; it's distance based. The sound waves have to hit the mics at exactly the right time where one is in a peak and the other is in a valley. A speaker is omnidirectional, so it doesn't matter if both mics are in front or in back, top or bottom, etc., or one one each. If they happen to be at the right distance where the mics pickup the soundwaves at the opposite end of the waveform, they'll be out of phase.
At least that's the way I've understood it.
WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
But if I'm not mistaken (and believe me--I am mistaken a lot
) in this case it has to do with a push/pull issue (I'm sure there's a better term!). Since the speaker is actually moving back and forth, when you mic it front and back (as opposed to two in the front but at varying distances) one side's pulling air while the other is pushing.This may be completely off base, but I believe it's the same logic behind flipping the phase on one mic if you mic the top and bottom of a snare. FWIW--I don't mic the back of my amp, but I do mic the top & bottom on snare, and flipping the phase on one works for me there.
IronFlippy
Dedicated To My Member
It's a combination of direction and distance. If both mikes are the same distance from the speaker, but pointed toward/away from each other, then you'll probably want to flip the polarity on one of them because as the speaker pushes air toward one mike, it's pulling it away from the other (air isn't actually traveling, but that's another discussion). If the distances are different as well, then this throws every thing out of perspective because now the compression/rarefaction of air is reaching the mikes at different times. In this case, there will ALWAYS be phase cancellations and summations, so your task is to make them work with each other and sound pleasant. Inverting polarity may or may not help the sound.
Codmate
New member
Record the room in silence, with the mics in the exact same position that they are in when you record guitar parts.
Also sit (or stand) in the same place that you are when you record, while holding the guitar.
Once you have a track (or tracks) of just room ambience, you can record a track of guitar.
Put the track(s) of ambient room noise in reverse phase and play it alongside your guitar track(s).
It won't get rid of the natural reverb of the guitar in the room, but the ambient noise should be reduced.
Also sit (or stand) in the same place that you are when you record, while holding the guitar.
Once you have a track (or tracks) of just room ambience, you can record a track of guitar.
Put the track(s) of ambient room noise in reverse phase and play it alongside your guitar track(s).
It won't get rid of the natural reverb of the guitar in the room, but the ambient noise should be reduced.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Never heard of that before, but it seems like a waste of time if you're using dynamc mics and a good level from the amp.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Have you actually tried that, or is that just a suggestion?
I'd think you wouldn't get true phase cancellation of the room noise unless it was the same exact clip of ambient noise that was in the recorded guitar track. Since by definition it's not, all you'd accomplish is add some more background noise to the mix, I would think...