room preperation

[iLogical]

Hi guys

I'm seeing if i can relatively cheaply prepare a room for recording with ordinary materials not some expensive foam. if this is just ridiculous don't hesitate to let me know but any ideas would be much apreaciated

my problems are as follows:

1 the room is quite small (approx 3x3m) and needs to record two instruments at the same time.
2 the room walls are made of gypsum (on stud walling - minimal absorbtion a bit like wood) and lime mortar (on stone - so no absorption at all).
3 the instruments are violin and double bass so however the room is softened needs to cope with both low and high frequencies.
because of the sise of the room i cant move loads of furniture or we won't be able to play comfortably.

i need to save every penny for equipment so any cuts that can maintain reasonable quality will improve mic's sound card etc...
i'm just looking for good materials and combinations of materials (eg thin plywood + soft foam + wool + foam + plywood or whatever!) anything to warm the room from it's sports hall state

thanks very much!

 

[Massive Master]

You don't need foam - Foam absorbs high end. I don't think I've ever been in a room that had high-end issues (other than perhaps a mild occasional comb filter or ping).

You have low end issues. They're going to be nearly horrific in a room that size. Broadband trapping - Lots of it. It'll take a dozen 2'x4'x4" traps to make a dent.

I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news... It's just physics.

 

[iLogical]

don't worry man!
thanks for the advice

on the other hand - damn

 

[iLogical]

ok cheers!

i don't think it will ever be a studio by any stretch of my (perhaps overactive) imagination. i just wondered if there were any ways i could easily improve it a bit to make working recordings a bit more bearable.
we don'r even have any decent mics or a sound card but i do have logic. i'm quite interested in setting up a very specific studio for what my brother and i would use it for so even if it isn't in this room all your advice will be very helpful for any other space i may choose.

thanks allot

 

[Todzilla]

It's true your room is too small to be able to transform into something special, acoustically.

But if you have sleeping bags, big down comforters and other, VERY heavy fabrics, you might gain some bass trapping if you can layer those in corners, with a void behind them.

 

[iLogical]

hey that's great!

we tried it today with some thick sheets on the walls and a couple of sofa cusions in the corners and it still sounds a bit odd but much better!

we have more cusions than we used today so we can really deaden it if we want - cheers for ur help everyone.

however, if i was to try and set up a room for recording properly are there any things we should specifically avoid? (glass? stone? metal?)

thanks for all your help so far - this my first post and it's been great i will definitely be back

 

[Massive Master]

however, if i was to try and set up a room for recording properly are there any things we should specifically avoid? (glass? stone? metal?)

Foam and blankets on the walls. The reason it sounds 'odd' is because instead of the low end being 90% of the problem, it's now 100% of the problem.

Stacking in the corners (STACKING - not hanging) *MIGHT* give you a wee bit of broadband trapping depending on the density of the materials. Maybe.

 

[Yonce N Mild]

rigid fiberglass stacked in the corner or rolls of the pink fluffy stuff stacked in the corner. Check the studio building and display forum for tons of cheap and easy bass trap ideas.

 

[iLogical]

ah cheers for the heads up there
yes they are very dense! old (like 60yr old) sofa cushions. just one in each corner about half way up (it was just a quick experiment)

i'm just ignorant i know but why all the fuss about the bass traps? what about treble? is it just harder to trap or not necessary cos of the the nature of hi frequency waves and how long they last in the room or...?

also any ideas about the ideal (or terrible) shapes and sixes for a studio? baring in mind it's gonna be pretty much exclusively for violin/double bass (duo live) and voice (probably separate).

also is it just as feasible to have a completely dead room and add room later in logic or will it sound artificial and nasty? (i don't have decent mic's yet so i cant test it for myself)

thanks again

 

[suprstar]

A floating floor would probably help in a room like yours.

Why? I missed the part where he said he was having isolation prob's... ??

i'm just ignorant i know but why all the fuss about the bass traps? what about treble? is it just harder to trap or not necessary cos of the the nature of hi frequency waves and how long they last in the room or...?

Because bass is EXTREMELY hard to kill off and treble is a snap. Bass has a lot of power behind it, high freq's dont. Ever notice in a PA you might run your subs with a 2000w amp (or amps), but your regular mains blasting the mids and highs only need 400w to balance it. Your seat cushions in the corners are taking care of all the high freq reflections, but the bass goes right thru it. You don't hear the airy high echoes anymore, so they think the room is great now, but in reality there's a ton of low end bouncing around your room like a pinball that isn't so obvious. This makes bass reinforced in some locations, and cancelled out in others. 2 identical mics in 2 different locations in your room will sound wildly different. There's no baseline, no constant acoustic reference.

also any ideas about the ideal (or terrible) shapes and sixes for a studio? baring in mind it's gonna be pretty much exclusively for violin/double bass (duo live) and voice (probably separate).

Square is bad. 12x12x8 is not good... A CUBE is even worse - 8x8x8 feet would be the worst disaster you can get. Rooms where one dimension is a multiple or of another, or has a low common denominator, is bad, 12x16x8 would be tough to control. Bigger is usually better. If I could create my own room, reasonable sized basement, I'd make it 19x14x8 or something.. Parallel walls cause prob's, you'd be doing yourself a favor if you could build a weird shaped room, with a vaulted ceiling if possible.

also is it just as feasible to have a completely dead room and add room later in logic or will it sound artificial and nasty? (i don't have decent mic's yet so i cant test it for myself)

Well it's nice to have a little life to your room. TOTALLY dead? That'll never happen if we're talking about seat cushions and low to no budget Look up 'anechoic chamber' on google, I'd guess construction probably requires FEET of absorbant materials on all wall ceiling and floor surfaces.

 

[iLogical]

wow!!!

thanks again this is fantastic!

i had a hunch it was basically cos bass caries faster longer and is better at traveling through things but that gives me a much clearer idea of what we are talking about.

the totally dead room was an exaggeration obvsly - very hard to achieve (especially with cushions and sheets! lol) but i get the basic idea.

what ur saying is u want a consistent room? - fairly constant sounding room (neutral) with enough space for the vibration to grow into and then die and a bit of nice natural reverb never hurt anyone who was able to use it.

the non parallel walls is interesting - i assume that's to avoid standing waves etc...

also the room size was great info - will definitely bare that in mind.
i think the ceiling would be a good place to have space cos of the double bass (we had to move all our music to a new room recently because the bass wouldn't stand under the low ceiling )
presumably the floor and ceiling could help and avoid being parallel as well or is enough with the walls.

thanks for being so patient! - i am a musician who has a great urge to record his own music.
i've recorded CDs at a few other studios (even realworld once) so i have some ideas about mic setups but none of the background info. i have just been doing midi stuff on logic so even that side of the software is kind of new.
cos i'm only 17 (very busy at college) it's really hard to find the time to go to a studio for a whole 2/3 days but if a simple studio specialised to our needs was possible at home the freedom would just be mind blowing!