room echoes. question.

americanruse

americanruse

avante-gardian angel
i haven't been around this forum for a LONG time. i moved to california, and i couldn't set up a studio out there. now i'm back in iowa. i'm working on a studio in my basement. it's got some mad echoes. i've never had to deal with this before. i laid carpet down, which help a little, but there's still too much reverb for my liking. so my question is...

do you think buying that studio foam stuff will help solve my problem, or should i build some absorbers and stuff? i know it's tough to answer without knowing the specifics, but i'm just looking for a general answer, so i know what direction i should start heading in.

thanks alot, and sorry if this question has been asked alot.

-scott
 
"that stuff" could be a waste of money or a live saver. There is so much difference in the material that without research you won't get a decent answer.

What I can tell you is that the reverb you hear is very likely 100% sucky. Which means kill it, and kill it all. That means shitloads of acoustic absorbers, not just a pad here and there. You want dryness like an old man's ass.
 
thanks. yeah. i know that i want it dead, but i was just wondering the best way to go about that. the foam i'm talking about is the auralex acoustics studiofoam. the absorbers i'm talking about are those giant wooden boxes with insulation in 'em. would one work better than the other? or maybe a completely different solution? i've read stuff on how to eliminate certain frequencies and such, but nothing on how to just deaden a room. so i don't wanna go out and spend money or time on stuff that won't even be what i want.
 
you want the "giant wooden boxes with insulation in 'em". THe insulation is rigid fiberglass, such as Owens Corning 703 or 705, or something like rockwool. Check with your local insualtion supplier or drywall supplier for availability. What part of Iowa are you in, I will see if I can track some down for you.

Why do you need this as opposed to foam you ask? The answer is simple. Bass. When you put up that foam on your walls, it will not take any bass out of your room. If it is covered, you will be left with a dead room with all of the highs and mids sucked out of it. The real trick is catching the bass. This insulation absorbs much lower than any foam, while still absorbing the higher frequencies. Depending if you have a large space or not, you are also going to have to deal with bass in the corners. Im assuming your room is square, which means you will have the inevatable ninety degree corners. Bass frequencies, tend to accumulate in these areas, leaving them to make your room sound muddy. This is most typically solved by putting some insulation across the corner, at a 45 degree angle, floor to ceiling. This will absorb some of these bass frequencies, giving you a more balanced room.

Obviously there is tons more to treating a room than this, but lets see if we can get some of the basics before you decide if you want to proceed. FOr many people, some absorbtion on the walls and in the corners is plenty, but its going to take a lot more to make it perfect.
 
You do not want to completely deaden the room. You will still want the room to sound natural otherwise a completely dead room will be uncomfortable to be in for a long period of time. Basically you will require bass traps in the corners, diffusers/absorbers on the side walls where your sound will bounce from your monitors, behind your monitors and on the rear wall and a cloud above your listening position for absorption.
 
thanks alot guys! that's pretty much what i was lookin for. just a straight basic answer. i was thinkin i was gonna have to go this route, but i am lazy, so i was tryiing to see if there was another way. ha. i'll look into materials tomorrow. i downloaded some plans a while back, but they aren't very detailed. i'm no carpenter, so if anyone has detailed instructions for building the absorbers/diffusers, i would MUCH appreciate it.

notbradsohner - i live in des moines, iowa. thanks again.
 
americanruse said:
thanks. yeah. i know that i want it dead, but i was just wondering the best way to go about that. the foam i'm talking about is the auralex acoustics studiofoam. the absorbers i'm talking about are those giant wooden boxes with insulation in 'em. would one work better than the other? or maybe a completely different solution? i've read stuff on how to eliminate certain frequencies and such, but nothing on how to just deaden a room. so i don't wanna go out and spend money or time on stuff that won't even be what i want.
Click to expand...

You don't want dead or totally dry. You want NEUTRAL.

Very big difference.
 
2" rigid insulation across the corners. Here's what I did. I attached 1"x4" boards vertical on each side of the corner. Make sure they are spaced so the 2'x4' sheets of insulation will fit in between them. Stack one of the 2'x4' insulation panels above the other one to give you 8' height (or whatever height you need. Get some of that wide silver metal tape used to tape together joints in ventilation ducts. That stuff is really sticky. Tape across the bottom of the bottom insulation sheet at whatever height you want the sheet off the floor. Then tape across the very top of the top sheet of insulation to the 2"x4" boards. You'll need to staple the tape to the boards. Next, run some tape across from board to board at the middle where the two insulation sheets meet. If you spaced the boards right the front of the insulation will rest just a little bit back of the front of the boards instead of on the wall behind the boards. Cover with material. I know it's not ideal but this has worked well for me as bass traps.

Next, get some 1" rigid insulation. 2" is better but costs more. Get some of that brown "hardboard" ( I think it's compressed paper) at Lowes or Home Depot. It's about 1/8" thick. Doesn't have to be really rigid. Cut the hardboard into 2'x4' pieces. Get some 3M spray glue (snot in a can). Spray the hardboard with the glue, let dry for a few seconds then place the rigid insulation on it. If you got the rigid insulation with foil on one side the foil side goes against the glue/hardboard. Cover with material (not stretched tight or you'll compress the insulation) and put some type of hanger (like a picture) on the back. Hang them vertically about three feet from the floor. Start out putting these on only one of the opposing walls. That means you will have these panels on two of your walls. You probably won't need it on the wall the panels are facing. Then again, if you are in a basement (really hard surfaces) you might need them on all walls. Space them about two feet apart (edge to edge). If you have to put them on all walls, make sure the panel on one wall is facing the gap between panels on the opposite wall. These panels work very well as diffusers. I had that wierd thwoonnggg echo when slapping wood blocks together while walking across the room before putting the panels up. It completely killed the echo without killing the room. I'll try to get some pictures posted tomorrow (damn it's already tomorrow) of what I have in my studio. Hope this helped.

DD
 
If you use pegboard ( the 1/8" hard brown stuff with the little holes all over) in that setup you have a Helmholz resonator.
 
Gorty said:
You do not want to completely deaden the room. You will still want the room to sound natural otherwise a completely dead room will be uncomfortable to be in for a long period of time. Basically you will require bass traps in the corners, diffusers/absorbers on the side walls where your sound will bounce from your monitors, behind your monitors and on the rear wall and a cloud above your listening position for absorption.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Have you heard concrete reflections? There's nothing nice about that. I say get rid of it all.
 
thanks dd. i'm pretty sure i understand the directions, but yeah... pictures would be wonderful, if you have some.
 
Halion said:
I don't agree. Have you heard concrete reflections? There's nothing nice about that. I say get rid of it all.
Click to expand...

Where does he say the basement is just concrete walls??????????? :confused:

Stay away from Aurelex. It's a waste of money compared to using Rigid Fiberglass Sound Board.
 
Ok, he didn't, but to be honest, I have yet to see a non-concrete basement (or a decent sounding basement for that matter). My bad if I'm wrong.
 
americanruse said:
do you think buying that studio foam stuff will help solve my problem, or should i build some absorbers and stuff? i know it's tough to answer without knowing the specifics, but i'm just looking for a general answer, so i know what direction i should start heading in.

thanks alot, and sorry if this question has been asked alot.

-scott
Click to expand...


Halion,
You are correct, no one wants concrete reflections, nasty thing. I answered the question asked "a general answer", "without knowing the specifics" and to give a "direction to start heading in". :)
 
Here's a couple of pics of my traps and diffusers. Second pic shows a corner trap with the uppermost 2'x4'x2" rigid insulation taken out. You'll see a little bit of the bottom piece that the upper piece was resting on. The 1"x4" boards are attached flat on the walls with wall anchors.

Third pic shows the corner trap with both pieces in. One resting on top of the other. Taped across where they meet. Since my rigid insulation had foil on the back I could put the foil tape across the back of the 1"x4" boards and stick the rigid insulation to the tape at the top, middle and bottom. You don't see this tape because it's behind the insulation. I haven't covered these with material yet.

First pic shows some of the diffusers made with 1" rigid glued to the pegboard type material. These have been covered with material (not stretched tight) and hung onto the walls using wall anchors and the little zigzag picture hangers.

Fourth pic shows one of two traps I have in my vocal booth. Made just like the ones in pics 1 and 2 using 2 inch rigid. Covered with material. My vocal booth is sort of a trihedral shape (not square and not triangular). It has a great sound with vocals and even better with acoustic guitar, saxophone and, believe it or not, flute. Didn't plan it that way, it just sorta happened.

Last pic is the control room with large diffusers on the wall. These are made using 4" baseboard molding to construct the frame (it's light) with three 1"x3" support members inside. The 2" rigid insulation is at the very front. Material is stretched tight around to the back and stapled. This makes the frame more rigid too. Only two diffusers are mounted right now. Need to get some more anchors. These are a little heavier than the previous diffusers so I use picture hanging wire on the back and hang it on the wall anchor.

The pics got swapped around during the upload. That's why I changed the order in the above paragraphs.

Hope this helps.

DD
 
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yeah man. thanks alot for going to all this trouble. seeing the actual pics, i'm no longer intimidated by the thought of building stuff. doesn't look too hard. maybe i can now get the studio up and running by the end of the month!

thanks again
-scott
 
try some of these companies

Acoustical Ceiling Design
3408 48th Place, Des Moines, IA 50310
(515) 727-6226
phonephone | map | save
Categories: Acoustical Contractors, Acoustical Materials

Acoustical Ceiling Design Services
Des Moines, IA 50307
(515) 727-6226
phonephone | map | save
Categories: Acoustical Contractors, Acoustical Materials

Drywall Distributors Corporation
5293 Northwest 114 Street, Des Moines, IA 50307
(515) 986-3641
phonephone | map | save
Categories: Acoustical Materials, Dry Wall Equipment & Supplies

Golden Valley Supply CO
36 Clark Street, Des Moines, IA 50314
(515) 262-9206
business profile | phonephone | map | save
Website http://www.goldenvalleysupply.com
Categories: Acoustical Materials

Midwest Acoustical Supply
2001 Northeast Broadway Avenue, Des Moines, IA 50313
(515) 309-4779
business profile | phonephone | map | save
Categories: Acoustical Materials

Midwest Acoustical Supply
2001 Northeast Broadway Avenue, Des Moines, IA 50313
(515) 564-1200
phonephone | map | save
Categories: Building Materials & Supplies Dealers, Acoustical Materials, Dry Wall Equipment & Supplies

Rew Materials
2240 Northeast 46th Avenue, Des Moines, IA 50317
(515) 262-4321
phonephone | map | save
Categories: Building Materials & Supplies Wholesale & Manufacturers, Acoustical Materials, Dry Wall Equipment & Supplies
 
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