Room condensor for hi gain guitar amp

SLuiCe

SLuiCe

New member
I've decided to start experimenting with room miking my Marshall JCM900. I've been recording the amp at the grill with a SM57beta, but I also own a Studio Projects C3, a Bheringer B2, and a pair of Octava MC012's. The rooms in my house I plan on trying out all have hardwood floors and a lot of natural ambience.

I'm waiting on a few guitar chain pieces (EQ box, and EMG81 for the Les Paul) before I start experimenting, but I'm hoping for some others' experiences to help me get the ball rolling when the stuff arrives.

I suspect that the multipattern of the C3 might yield some interesting results in my lead work and clean rhythms/phrasings, but what about crunch rhythms? Should I focus more on the "uni directional" characteristics of the MC012?

I guess Iv'e got a hundred questions and a lot of experimenting to do, but if you've got some thoughts I'd love to have 'em! My main question is really which mic do you think will help me get the best hard rock tone. I do fine well with cleans.

Thanks for any help, and I hope your brain doesn't hurt now. :)

Tom
 
I've really started to like the C1 on distorted guitars. The guitars on that last tune I posted in the clinic were all C1 on a vox and boogie. I'll have some better mixes up in a few weeks.

I hate the 57 against the grill tone. It's usually too dull for my taste. I like putting the C1 about 1-4 ft away and getting a little more air. If I want a slightly tighter sound I will put some 703 panels around the sides and top of the amp to help tame the reflections.

Sometimes you can get a really big sound by using a room mic and compressing it. Works well on some lead and rhythm tones. You might try using the C3 pretty close and the MC012 farther out. Might give you a cool stereo sound.
 
Tex, thanks man. I'll go back and have a listen to those tunes, knowing what you're using. I'll also try your suggestions. I'm definitely starting to doubt the 57 approach, at least for my amp. I need to determine whether I should ditch the Fender cab I've been using for like 8 years or try some new miking approaches. I am seriously lacking the warmth and crunch I crave, and I don't think I want to jump into the Boogie parade just yet. Maybe the mics... (place hysterical face here...)



Chris, I'm about 5 paragraphs into that thread and laughing my ass off. It's bookmarked in case I run out of time tonight. Thanks!
 
I've never tried the other condensors you mention except the 012's, which I couldn't get anything I liked with an amp. I LOVE AT4033's on an amp out from about a foot to how evr much room you want in the mics.
 
I've been liking my ECM8000's for lead tones, about 3' from the front of my 412 slant. they key is to get the cab up off the floor (a milk crate works nicely) and away from the walls. I also tend to angle it to avoid standing waves. The ECM's put out a really hot signal with loud amps, so you'll probably have to pad your input. The tone sounds a bit thin when solo'd, but seems to sit in the mix well with no EQ.:cool:

The dynamic I've been playing with lately is the Beyer M69. It's hard to describe the tone. Strong mids, but not harsh when placed well. Tight pattern like a 57, but more presence. I'm likin' it on rythym.:)
 
You really have to experiment, there's no way around it.

Last weekend I tracked guitars for a hardcore band. 1st guitar was an ESP - Les Paulish thing that sounded really nice through a Mesa Dual Rectifier into a Mesa 4 x 12. I thought I would try some ideas I've read on the various forums.

I set it up in the garage (for that garage band sound) and put a Beyer M260DX ribbon mic on it, with a second room mic about 10-12 feet away. The room mic was a Microtech Gefell MT71s - a cardioid U87ish mic with rich mids and nice detail.

Went back into the control room for an initial listen and then sent a band member on headphones out into the garage to adjust the mics, especially the close up ribbon mic.

Well, the ribbon sounded like absolute crap, no matter where I put it, and the Gefell stunk as well. So I pulled out my trusty 57 and a Marshall MXL67 and Bingo! Great sound.

Trust your ears.
 
By the way, on a lark I recently bought one of those new, Brian May Vox little amps ($140.00). The second guitar was a Gibson SG thru the Brian May Vox into the same Mesa 4 x 12 and the sound was outstanding. Go figure.
 
I also cannot dig SM57. Every time I approach it - it kills my tone :(
so what I finally started using is SP B1 pretty close to grill, and ! yeah ! what a diffrence ! open, crunchy warm tone (even though it is hi-gain).

I'm still considering buying Sennheiser MD421 in place of sm57 that I cant use (I would never say to dare it is bad mic - I apparently dont know how to use it - and I dont want to spend next 20 years on learning this, I'd rather do some music with other microphone in meantime :-)
 
You will probably will have these "out of phase" problems taking all the power away. Of course, that problem can be solved by moving the room mic file back a little to fit the close mic. Try the guitar sound in mono.

Hans,
www.hagen.nu
 
Tex, I just put my C3 in front of the marshall to try out the H&K Tube Factor that showed up today. Holy shit...I don't think I'll be using that SM57b anymore. On the first placement I tried with the C3, about 3 feet away centered with the 4x12, two tracks panned hard L and R, I've already made 2 years of work recording guitars totally obsolete. Wow. I haven't even started moving the thing around yet.


Oh yeah...thanks everyone for all the ideas!
 
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jeff scratches his head and then jots down a few notes on his quest for a beautiful-angry guitar sound


got anything going on at the end of sept.?
just picked up a yamaha 01v96 board ... i should cruise up to maine for a week... :) watcha think?
 
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