rolling off....

[SouthSIDE Glen]

"roll off" is a bit of a loose term that can refer to (at least in my head)
a low/hi pass (like you have shown) or a subtractive low or high shelf, like i tried to explain.

A shelf and a roll off are not the same thing.

As tarnation correctly said and showed, a roll off lo/high pass keeps increasing the amount of gain change as the frequency increases (or decreases, for a high pass).

A shelf, OTOH, has a set gain change level that it slopes to and then holds there regardless of frequency extent. That's one of the origins of the term "shelf"; graphically it resembles a flat level shelf. A "roll off", however, keeps rolling off towards the bottom of the graphic frequency chart and doesn not flatten out.

Additionally, a shelf can refer to a boost or a cut, whereas a roll off is an overall cut only.

Note that some roll off filters can actually have a bit of a bump at the set frequency before rolling off, but that's an occasional design detail that one shouldn't let confuse the general description given before.

G.

 

[chazba]

There is no substitute for experience. Go ahead and play around with your tracks. It's not like they're made of gold. Screw them up then fix them. Do it again till you get a handle on what sounds pleasing to you.
Pay close attention to SSGlenn's words of wisdom


chazba

 

[raven46]

There is no substitute for experience. Go ahead and play around with your tracks. It's not like they're made of gold. Screw them up then fix them. Do it again till you get a handle on what sounds pleasing to you.
Pay close attention to SSGlenn's words of wisdom


chazba

ya totally, ssglenn put it into perspective

i know its only two days since i posted this but ive spent a lot of time experimenting and ive got rid of alot of the boomyness in my tracks

whats a killer is eqing the bass, when i solo it i can get savage/nice tones
but when its in with the rest of the tracks its all over the place(not in playing, sound wize) its not boomy but just too bassy and rotten

it dose'nt sound like a bass should

i cant get it to sound right/good and sit in the mix propper

other than that im pretty happy with the other tracks even the vox is better

oh well, i'll keep at it

cheers for all the advice...

 

[Freudian Slip]

Bass in a mix isn't how people normaly picture it. Unless the song is very open you may have to roll off the bass. YOu also might want to try boosting some 3 to 4k. you may need to tame around 250 too. Hard to say. You should eq it while the mix is going though until you have a better Idea of what you should be hearing when it's solo'd. I think you are suffering from a common miscoseption of what a typical bass track sounds like on it's own. It consits of alot more midrange than you may think.

You can also kill a bass track if you try to fix a bass with alot of fret noise. Better to leave the fret noise imho or find a different bass or player depending on where the problem lies.

Good luck.

F.S.

 

[mixsit]

...whats a killer is eqing the bass, when i solo it i can get savage/nice tones
but when its in with the rest of the tracks its all over the place(not in playing, sound wize) its not boomy but just too bassy and rotten

Ask the following; What (which) shall rule the low end in the mix. The kick may with the bass adding low and mid melodic, or the rolls flipped, or some blend in between.
Then what other instruments if any are getting in the way of the above plan?

I find it fairly typical to shelve off or dip kicks and bass. And I don't feel I can even get to that stage well until the mix is up 90%. But that's just me.

 

[raven46]

Bass in a mix isn't how people normaly picture it.


F.S.

thats just it i have nothing to reference what a propper eq'd bass sounds like solo'd, if you know what i mean

if the is a break in the song and the bass plays a few notes its fine but when the rest of the tracks kick in again its all over the place

i do try to eq while the mix is going and it sounds shite so i solo it and make it sound better but then it sound shite again in the mix

im going to have to try a different approach

 

[raven46]

Ask the following; What (which) shall rule the low end in the mix. The kick may with the bass adding low and mid melodic, or the rolls flipped, or some blend in between.
Then what other instruments if any are getting in the way of the above plan?

I find it fairly typical to shelve off or dip kicks and bass. And I don't feel I can even get to that stage well until the mix is up 90%. But that's just me.

i try to follow this

im lacking in eq knowledge, understanding and experience

i do find it easier to eq bass when im using a pick, when im playing with my fingers its harder and i prefer to play with my fingers rather than a pick unless the song really needs it,

i guess im gonna have to play with the pick untill i get a better understanding of what im doing

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

if the is a break in the song and the bass plays a few notes its fine but when the rest of the tracks kick in again its all over the place

i do try to eq while the mix is going and it sounds shite so i solo it and make it sound better but then it sound shite again in the mix

im going to have to try a different approach

You might want to consider the possibility that the problem is not your bass track but rather it's the rest of the mix stepping all over it. Without hearing what's actually going on, we can only speculate, but this is a definite possibility.

Make sure you have enough room for the bass in the mix. A couple of possibilities

- roll off (how topical! ) the lo bass frequencies on the tracks that don't need it (vocals, guitars, snare, electric keys, etc.)

- make sure the bass and the kick get along and don't fight each other too much. Differential EQ, lagging the beat, and slightly offsetting the panning of each can all heelp there.

- if you've got a heavy wall of distorted guitar happening, EQ the low end on those tracks to make some more room for other stuff. ofrget the "death scoop" EQ.

i guess im gonna have to play with the pick untill i get a better understanding of what im doing

To my sensibilities, that's putting the cart so far before the horse that they're in different area codes.

Don't cripple your playing just to try and get a decent recording, because you'll never get a decent recording. It all starts with the performance; cripple that and you're already starting in a hole. Besides, you're gonna have to learn how to track and mix the good stuff sooner or later; better to get that down now.

G.

 

[chazba]

Something that has been left out in this discussion.....Musicality.

A track, whether instrument or voice has 2 aspects in this discussion.
The first should be musicality, or to oversimplify, how the part fits in the song.
The second is , to make up a new word...Sonicality. This means how it fits in the mix. How it interacts with everything else that is going on in the mix.

My belief is that a part if well played with feeling appropriate to the song, will be very easy to place within a mix. On the other hand, a part that is out of tune, out of rhythm or with a feel that doesnt support the song, is gonna be nearly impossible to place within the mix. These are issues of musicality.

Issues of "sonicality" include stuff like guitar tone, drum mix, instrument choice (Fender vs. Rickenbacker vs. Sabre) Mic placement, mic choice, EQ, dynamic Processing etc. Some of thes things you can improve in the mixing process. All are addressed most effectively in the tracking phase. Learn to be very picky in the tracking phase and you will find that you will have fewer problems in the mixing phase.


chazba

 

[raven46]

You might want to consider the possibility that the problem is not your bass track but rather it's the rest of the mix stepping all over it. Without hearing what's actually going on, we can only speculate, but this is a definite possibility.

Make sure you have enough room for the bass in the mix. A couple of possibilities

- roll off (how topical! ) the lo bass frequencies on the tracks that don't need it (vocals, guitars, snare, electric keys, etc.)

- make sure the bass and the kick get along and don't fight each other too much. Differential EQ, lagging the beat, and slightly offsetting the panning of each can all heelp there.

G.

i do watch out for how the other instruments are fitting into the mix and as a precaution i do pull back the LF frequencies that dont need it, and mabey give some back later if need be

i could say the same if there is no bass at the start of a song all the other tracks sound ok but when the bass kicks in its back to the cringe

i also make sure the bass and kick get along

chazba
good points about tracking and i think im gonna answer my question here coz i have a very very average bass and it dose'nt produce the best tone and i tought that i could give it more flavour in the mixing stage and i do get nice tones but as i said solo'd not in the mix, i have neglected to spend the time needed to get the best tone at the tracking stage ive been trying to compensate in the mixing stage

i guess there is some things that just cant be fixed

 

[chazba]

Aint it great to have a "DO OVER" button. After I made that post, I was downstairs messing around. I took my own advice and re-recorded a bass part, way simplefied,and with a different tone. I have a P-J setup which allows a lot of flexibility in sounds. Anyway...now it lays in much better and with fewer notes, is stronger rythmically.

chazba

 

[Freudian Slip]

Congrats!

F.S.