Roland VS-2000CD Verses Boss BR1600

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Yes I do....here you are:

Dan's music at Garageband.com

My songs are kind of in a screwy order, there but here's a list of which song is recorded on what device:

Traveler
Ethereal Funk
GKW
Disconnected Strings (w/vox)
Walking With the Angels (w/vox)
All of the above were recorded on my Roland Vs880EX 8 track.

The Epiphany songs (Cool Embers, For a Day, Forging Normal, Restful Awakening) were recorded using my Roland VS1880.

If you have any questions at all about instruments or equipment used, please don't hesitate to ask! :)

I should mention I never mastered any of these songs..I wasn't 'up' on mastering when I recorded these. I still like how they sound after all this time, though. I'm going to work on mastering when I write new stuff on the VS2400.
 
Thing about the 2400 or 2480 is, that many people have had the motorized faders break down on them. Also, they both use data compression, while the 2000CD doesn't (don't know about the Boss units, but I suspect that they too are linear recorders). The 2000CD has a USB interface, so backup to computer is very simple and effective, especially if you have a DVD-R drive in your computer. The other VS machines don't.
 
MK-Ultra said:
Thing about the 2400 or 2480 is, that many people have had the motorized faders break down on them. Also, they both use data compression, while the 2000CD doesn't (don't know about the Boss units, but I suspect that they too are linear recorders). The 2000CD has a USB interface, so backup to computer is very simple and effective, especially if you have a DVD-R drive in your computer. The other VS machines don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2400 works uncompressed in M24 mode, and then uses CODEC compression in it's other recording modes.

You can back up the 2400 using it's built in CD writer. Maybe not super fast, but it'll do it.
 
Dan The Speakerman said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2400 works uncompressed in M24 mode, and then uses CODEC compression in it's other recording modes.

You can back up the 2400 using it's built in CD writer. Maybe not super fast, but it'll do it.

How many tracks of uncompressed data will that give @ 44.1 or 96khz?

The VS2000CD will do 12 (+ Master Tracks) @24 bit/44.1. I think the best that the 24xx models can do in linear is 16, and that is @ 44.1 khz. I think it will only do 8 @ 96 khz.

IMO, I wouldn't pay too much for any of the VS models right now. They are all discontinued models.

Cheers,
 
MK-Ultra said:
How many tracks of uncompressed data will that give @ 44.1 or 96khz?

The VS2000CD will do 12 (+ Master Tracks) @24 bit/44.1. I think the best that the 24xx models can do in linear is 16, and that is @ 44.1 khz. I think it will only do 8 @ 96 khz.

IMO, I wouldn't pay too much for any of the VS models right now. They are all discontinued models.

Cheers,

Then what would you pay for? What recorder would you get at around that price range?
 
MK-Ultra said:
How many tracks of uncompressed data will that give @ 44.1 or 96khz?

The VS2000CD will do 12 (+ Master Tracks) @24 bit/44.1. I think the best that the 24xx models can do in linear is 16, and that is @ 44.1 khz. I think it will only do 8 @ 96 khz.

IMO, I wouldn't pay too much for any of the VS models right now. They are all discontinued models.

Cheers,

You are correct MK; 16 tracks linear at 24 bit/48 khz or 44.1 khz recording and playback, 8 tracks @ 24/96 khz.

The VS2000CD is discontinued. I haven't heard an official announcement that the other two models are. Roland has stated that they will continue to support the 2000, though.
 
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I expect that vendors have kept quiet about the others being discontinued because they don't want to have to firesale their remaining stocks. All of the later model VSs will be supported for the next few years, but that's the law, really. I doubt there will be any further OS upgrades for any of them.

My main problem with the 2400, though, and the main reason why I didn't buy one, is the motorized faders. Automix makes this feature redundant, imo, and there is then one more (or however many faders there are) mechanical thing to go wrong. From reading about these models elsewhere, like the Planet, my impression is that most users of the 24xx models are most concerned about getting replacement faders/motors down the road.

So, my recommendation would be a 2000CD with VGA interface. I didn't find the learning curve to be that difficult (but then again, I had an 880EX first) and editing via a 17" monitor, mouse and keyboard is waaay easier than a little LCD screen.

Then there are the 3rd party plugins, that lift these units to a whole different level....

For a price..... :cool:
 
Hey Blackwiz......


I know there is alot of info flying around right now. Everybody had given some good advice, but it is an awkward situation. Here's some final thoughts from me....

1. Gorty and Dumby use the Boss units, and their tracks to me sound INCREDIBLE
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=463095

2. I've owned both, and I can't get rid of my vs2000 fast enough. It's too cumbersome. I want to spend my time on musical notes - not logistical virtual routing, and trying to be conservative with where I can and can't assign effects to tracks.

3. Roland has disconntinued the Roland VS2000 after barely 3 years. This pissed me off to no end. This means no more new features, no more patches, probably no more 3rd party effects - and this REALLY hurts the EBAY value of the unit. (There was 1 on ebay last week at $300 )


Honestly............ BR1600 or Look at something on a PC or MAC



Good luck, I hope I didn't make this more confusing than it already is.
 
mattkw80 said:
Hey Blackwiz......


I know there is alot of info flying around right now. Everybody had given some good advice, but it is an awkward situation. Here's some final thoughts from me....

1. Gorty and Dumby use the Boss units, and their tracks to me sound INCREDIBLE
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=463095

2. I've owned both, and I can't get rid of my vs2000 fast enough. It's too cumbersome. I want to spend my time on musical notes - not logistical virtual routing, and trying to be conservative with where I can and can't assign effects to tracks.

3. Roland has disconntinued the Roland VS2000 after barely 3 years. This pissed me off to no end. This means no more new features, no more patches, probably no more 3rd party effects - and this REALLY hurts the EBAY value of the unit. (There was 1 on ebay last week at $300 )


Honestly............ BR1600 or Look at something on a PC or MAC



Good luck, I hope I didn't make this more confusing than it already is.


I value everyones opinion. Im just reading peoples opinions and why they pick the VS-2000 or Boss Br-1600.

Does anyone know why the VS-2000 discontinued?




And you said there was one for $300?? I didnt see any on ebay close to that price. Most on ebay go for atleast $850. Maybe, the auction wasn't done when you saw that.
 
I think you have to decide what you're going to do with it. If you are just song writing and doing demos then the BR-1600 may be for you. If you want to get really serious about recording go with a VS 2400. I wouldn't buy a machine thats is discontinued. A couple of years down the road when you need parts you will be looking on Ebay because Roland won't be stocking the parts.
The VS2400 and 2480 are there top recorders. They will be continuing with these models. They were designed for the experienced enginere. I had been recording for years before I bought my VS2400. It is set up very wisely. It took no time to get used to because of it's layout. It is far more flexiable too. You have to have some experience working with more than a multitrack cassette machine. The mic pres are way better then the BR series pres. The plug-in factor makes it pro sounding. I have never had a glitch with my machine in the 2 to3 years I have owned it. The faders work fine. They brake down no more then any other companies faders. The VGA and mouse thing makes a huge difference.
On the other hand the BR 1600 has everything that a song writer needs. Two headphone jacks because most people who use it usually will be working with one other person. They put one on the VS because the person using that machine may already have a headphone amp. They can come out of an AUX out to the amp. Each machine is designed for a different user group. You have to decide which group you belong to. Sorry if I rambled a bit. :)
 
Hi there, just thought I'd join in with the Br1600 thing.

This is just a short piece I recorded on the Br1600. No vocals though.



Cheers,
jarmugar
 
hoops said:
I think you have to decide what you're going to do with it. If you are just song writing and doing demos then the BR-1600 may be for you. If you want to get really serious about recording go with a VS 2400. I wouldn't buy a machine thats is discontinued. A couple of years down the road when you need parts you will be looking on Ebay because Roland won't be stocking the parts.
The VS2400 and 2480 are there top recorders. They will be continuing with these models. They were designed for the experienced enginere. I had been recording for years before I bought my VS2400. It is set up very wisely. It took no time to get used to because of it's layout. It is far more flexiable too. You have to have some experience working with more than a multitrack cassette machine. The mic pres are way better then the BR series pres. The plug-in factor makes it pro sounding. I have never had a glitch with my machine in the 2 to3 years I have owned it. The faders work fine. They brake down no more then any other companies faders. The VGA and mouse thing makes a huge difference.
On the other hand the BR 1600 has everything that a song writer needs. Two headphone jacks because most people who use it usually will be working with one other person. They put one on the VS because the person using that machine may already have a headphone amp. They can come out of an AUX out to the amp. Each machine is designed for a different user group. You have to decide which group you belong to. Sorry if I rambled a bit. :)

I think it is the law that a company must offer parts for discontinued products. I was told 10 years in Canada, others have said 7 in the US. So, I don't think this is a real issue, unless you plan on using this equipment forever.
 
I have been using the Boss 1600CDR for around 3 years now and every now and then I look around to upgrade or advance somewhat in the DAW domain and to be brutally honest, I haven't found anything for the same price etc that even comes close to the Boss 1600 unit!
 
:D As MK says: "...models are discontinued now...."

Seems that there are some good prices out there for either a Roland VS or the BR 16.

Seems like it's about time a much better multitrack makes its debut.

I have the Yam 2816 and it is easier than the 4418 but it has an ugly manual. Someone told me that the US educated Asians who write manuals back home speak English; however, they think in their own language and that is why you find so many "intrusive" TIPS in the Yam manuals. Like, show me one way clearly and let me record.

The section on arming tracks to record in my Yam manual is dazzlingly stupid. I almost always use the QUICK RECORD screen.

Since one plastic button kind of broke on my 2816, I've been looking and reading about the BR-1600 and got a good price from my main vendor. So, I may get the box as a back-up.

I really appreciate the info all have contributed to the Roland VS boxes and the BR16--I like "easy and fast to record, mix, and burn the CD" and the BR1600 sounds like it will do just that.

I'm guessing that as soon as I get the BR16, a new box, easier to run will jump on the open market.

Anybody know what innovations will be forthcoming from Yamaha, Roland, etc.?

Happy Summer if it ever gets to the Mid-West.

Green Hornet :D
 
Br1600cd

Hey Blackwiz, your question of BR vs VS has generated alot of replies and I'll throw in my 2 cents worth too:-)
I was originally persuaded to the concept of a computer and software but my final decesion was based on how much spare time I had to learn how to use it and money available. After I heard the BR1600 demos and had a demo by Boss rep, I felt it was capable of excellent results and was going to be a simpler learning curve than the likes of a VS model or Cubase or Pro Tools. This has proved true for me.
Keep in mind that results will be dependent on the quality of your microphones and instruments (and on how you use them). Get a good condensor mic. I've been getting good results from an AKG C1000s and a Rode NT2a. There are higher priced (better?) mics ~ I cant justify at the moment and then you can get into a debate about mic preamps etc but the person who debates this point probably wont buy a BR1600 ;-)
If you are working mostly alone then the drum machine, bass line, and sample loop sections are really useful as you construct and experiment with your song arrangements.
I write out a map plan for my songs i.e. how many bars, tempo variations, chord progressions and then in the arrangement mode put in the drum/bass/loops. Als, if you dont have a bass player or dont know 600 bass line clichés you may find the bass presets work for you; and they will follow the cord progressions you enter. You can edit these or programme them from scratch. You can of course use up to 8 inputs simultaneously for live recordings ~ once again results will be dependent on your mics, room, placement etc).
The machine is capable of a lot of fancy editing and as you get the knack of mixing and mastering you can vastly refine your results ~ thats an art in itself ~ how to eq, compress, master etc.
However as quite a few folks have said it's not visual so if you are cutting and pasting bits of pieces its not as easy as click and drag but you can mark points in the song and move, insert, copy etc with relative ease.
You can programme mix scenes too when you get to the final stages ~ you dont have the motorised faders but you can put marker points thru the song and have the track levels, panning, loop effects, eq, compression etc change so thats a great feature instead of trying to juggle it with two hands and some of those functions you could not access quickly doing a 'live' mixdown.
The effects/amp models etc are good ~ I've got great guitar sounds just plugging in. There are plenty of good presets (100 or 120 if you've got Ver2)and they are easy to edit. I was going to get a POD but the guitar effects/models in the BR are fine to my ears so that's money saved and less gear plugged in.
The drum machine is good although I prefer the 'real' sound quality of sample loops and you can import loops (WAV or AIFF). M-Audio have the Pro Sessions Loop library which is worth checking out or you might have friends with a harddrive full of drum loops who could burn them onto a CD for you. Loops can be edited to a degree in the BR e.g. you can alter tempos and resave.
The vocal pitch correction is not that great in my opinion so I'll have to improve my singing :-/ The vocal harmonizer is a little synthetic but it will follow your cord progressions and I've used it to good affect as a texture in the background of mixes.
In summary, if your main focus is writing and recording your songs and you dont want to get to distracted by the technology get the BR1600. If you are into the whole artform of mixing, mastering, editing, re routing signal paths through external processors etc etc then go for a VS or computer with Protools but expect I much much longer learning curve.
Frambo out
 
I currently own a VS1880. I've been using VS units since the VS1680 came out. I want to get a bigger VS without losing my original data. The 2xxx series will import data, but my hard drive is faulty, which means I can't burn CD's. The 2000 has USB, making it easy to get stuff onto my PC, but lacks SCSI, hence I can't recover my 1680 data. It can't use the MB-24 meterbridge either. The 2400 has motorised faders, but no SCSI or USB. The 2480 only lacks USB. I've asked local shops for replacement hard drives, but no-one will help me. Any suggestions?
 
1880 connect to PC monitor??

Im trying to decide whether to buy a 1680, 1880, or a 2480...what is the difference between them and can the 1680 or the 1880 be connected to a PC monitor to make things easyer? I know the 2480 can. Thanks.
 
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