Roland V-Drums

[Robert D]

I have a TD-6 module interfaced with BFD, and it is heavenly. BFD comes with a TD-6 mapping just a mouseclick away, so this is dead simple, and it sounds incredible. I was using Gigastudio for drum samples before, which was OK, but a pain. BFD is a Godsend to me, and one of those purchases that was worth every penny and more. It's one of those additions to my project studio that greatly enables me to forget about the technology and just make music.
If you want to do this once and do it right, I strongly urge you to spend the extra coin and go with BFD instead of EzDrummer. If you qualify, you can get academic pricing that makes it much more affordable.

 

[RawDepth]

Speaking of which, on the same topic, could I use my TD-10 to trigger samples in EZDrummer?

I sometimes retrigger drum tracks with my TD10 without using any drum software.

From my computer DAW, (I use Adobe Audition 2.0,) I playback a recorded kick drum track, (for example,) and send it out analog to my TD10. I just plug it straight into the number one trigger input and adjust the volume at the DAW until it is triggering correctly. Then I run the TD10 output (the new kick sample) back to the computer DAW to be recorded. I play the entire track at real-time speed and record it simultaneously onto another track.

Presto! I have a new (better sounding) kick track with no noticeable latency. I can do it with snare or any other drum track as well.

No midi, no software, no fuss, no muss.

You should be able to do it with any Roland module too.

RawDepth

 

[sirslurpee]

I sometimes retrigger drum tracks with my TD10 without using any drum software.

From my computer DAW, (I use Adobe Audition 2.0,) I playback a recorded kick drum track, (for example,) and send it out analog to my TD10. I just plug it straight into the number one trigger input and adjust the volume at the DAW until it is triggering correctly. Then I run the TD10 output (the new kick sample) back to the computer DAW to be recorded. I play the entire track at real-time speed and record it simultaneously onto another track.

Presto! I have a new (better sounding) kick track with no noticeable latency. I can do it with snare or any other drum track as well.

No midi, no software, no fuss, no muss.

You should be able to do it with any Roland module too.

RawDepth

What? that is confusing.. So are you saying, you are using the samples in the TD-10 but if you don't like the sound you are just retriggering and rerecording JUST the kick track?

 

[mattkw80]

This sounds incredible......... but please explain again............

Also, thanks for the advice on BFD.... I am going to try a demo of it.

 

[RawDepth]

What? that is confusing.. So are you saying, you are using the samples in the TD-10 but if you don't like the sound you are just retriggering and rerecording JUST the kick track?

No, I mean if a recorded kick track from a real drum didn't come out so great, then I can replace it with a kick from the TD10. ...And yes, any single track can be done this way.

 

[sirslurpee]

ohhh! i get it... but the TD-10 kick samples suck :\
plus the kick should come through in the overheads so you'd be fighting against that with the sample...

 

[sirslurpee]

But I did just get a brain storm.. Wouldn't I be able to do exactly what you said, but instead have the kick trigger MIDI and then use the MIDI to trigger EZDrummer or BFD/whatever?

Although, I've heard of a lot of people using Drumagog to replace tracks with samples like that.. I haven't tried it yet and I don't think I'm going to be able to drop any money on that right now..

 

[RawDepth]

ohhh! i get it... but the TD-10 kick samples suck :
plus the kick should come through in the overheads so you'd be fighting against that with the sample...

Well, not all of the samples suck. I installed the expansion card and a few of those kicks sound okay. I usually edit to taste (in the module) anyway before I retrigger them.

Here is a song that I did it on. The kick is straight from my TD10 to tape. From PMC #9 The kick becomes more noticeable later in the song and there are a few spots where it is just drums and bass, where you can really hear it better.

 

[sirslurpee]

Nice! I like the song even..
But yeah I use that SAME kick almost exactly on one of my v-kits.. yours sounds better though.. but really, the toms and the snare sound REALLY frigging good. Honestly.. I didn't expect results from this with adobe audition too.. good job!

 

[mattkw80]

I kind of forgot the most basic reason I started this post..... my real reasons for posting about the Roland TD-6 is......


How can I get the best possible sound recorded out of my TD-6 ?


Should I add (or even need to add) compression to the recorded performance of the TD-6 ?

 

[RawDepth]

I kind of forgot the most basic reason I started this post..... my real reasons for posting about the Roland TD-6 is......


How can I get the best possible sound recorded out of my TD-6 ?


Should I add (or even need to add) compression to the recorded performance of the TD-6 ?

No, you shouldn't need to add compression unless you wanted to create a special effect or something. The samples in (all) the Roland modules are already sonically near perfect.

Compression is really used to control dynamics. That is, to get those loud hits and soft hits under control so the volume levels don't vary quite so much. If you have that problem in some of your tracks then, by all means, go ahead and use it. But keep in mind that quite often engineers complain that modern music really lacks dynamics from being compressed too much. (Music is supposed to have loud parts and quiet parts.)

Also, those samples should be already well EQ'd when they were first created by Roland. You can tweak the tone to taste if you wish but, sometimes folks leave that alone as well. If the playback of pre-made samples sounds that horrible to you then perhaps your monitors or your room may need some attention.

No matter how you get those sounds into your computer or recorder, the necessity to change them afterwards is all a matter of personal taste.

Hope this answers your question.

RawDepth

 

[mattkw80]

Thanks RawDepth !


That answers my question... compression should not be needed... but as I see fit I may want to EQ or add effects.

So an overview of how I would get the best sound out of these (without going the MIDI route...)

1. Select a drum kit I like, plug x2 1/4 mono guitar cables from the output Left and Right to the Inputs on my recording device.

2. Adjust the gain on my recording device so the clip light starts to hit red, and then back it back down.

3. Record my drum track. No compression needed. EQ and effects as needed.



That's the best formula ?

No, you shouldn't need to add compression unless you wanted to create a special effect or something. The samples in (all) the Roland modules are already sonically near perfect.

Compression is really used to control dynamics. That is, to get those loud hits and soft hits under control so the volume levels don't vary quite so much. If you have that problem in some of your tracks then, by all means, go ahead and use it. But keep in mind that quite often engineers complain that modern music really lacks dynamics from being compressed too much. (Music is supposed to have loud parts and quiet parts.)

Also, those samples should be already well EQ'd when they were first created by Roland. You can tweak the tone to taste if you wish but, sometimes folks leave that alone as well. If the playback of pre-made samples sounds that horrible to you then perhaps your monitors or your room may need some attention.

No matter how you get those sounds into your computer or recorder, the necessity to change them afterwards is all a matter of personal taste.

Hope this answers your question.

RawDepth

 

[Robert D]

Hey Matt.....
So, the TD-6 module has some pretty good sounds in it, and the method you described can work if you find and record a drumset from it that works well for that song, and you play it perfectly with the right dynamics and timing, and the balance and panning between the various elements of the kit works in the mix. The problem is that those elements rarely line up and you end up with a drum track that wants a little tweaking. So my recommendation, and indeed the method I've used before wth the TD-6 is to record it just as you described, but at the same time record the midi stream out of it. This opens up all kinds of possibilities;

*You can sync the midi with your audio tracks, and have the TD-6 "play" the drums in real time with your audio track.

*While it's playing in sync you can audition and switch to different kits.

*While it's playing you can adjust parameters of the kit, like making the snare louder, or changing out cymbols, or panning things differently.

*You can edit timing mistakes or adjust dynamics by editing the midi file.

*You can add percussion parts, or throw in a crash somewhere.

*You can record the individule drums as audio on seperate tracks of your recording rig by muting everything on the TD-6 but the drum you want to record on that track, and then playing back the sequence while recording it synced to your audio recorder, then repeating for each drum, or group that you want. This is like having the multiple outs of a TD-10 or TD-20.

 

[mattkw80]

Sounds awesome !


I've began to play with that in a Demo copy of Pro Tools.


Are their own draw backs to using Midi ?

Will it still sound 100% as if a human (not a machine) played the kit ?

 

[Dumby]

I kind of forgot the most basic reason I started this post..... my real reasons for posting about the Roland TD-6 is......


How can I get the best possible sound recorded out of my TD-6 ?


Should I add (or even need to add) compression to the recorded performance of the TD-6 ?

I record my TD-3's dry, all I do is add reverb afterwards. I'm content my homerecording. Exept for my cymbals, I need to reduce the amount of sustain on the crash so it's more like the china effect one I use in there.

 

[Mistral]

Are their own draw backs to using Midi ?

Only dependant on what you use as samples, as well as your own skill. Certainly compared to using the audio output of your Roland kit there are no disadvantages, only advantages.

Will it still sound 100% as if a human (not a machine) played the kit ?

Again, compared to the Roland's own output there is no difference at all in the quality of the output if you use quality samples. MIDI sends and stores all the relevant data needed to preserve the essence of your performance including velocity, which is very important in terms of capturing the intricacies.. timing is the only thing you may need to pay attention to, but this is primarily dependant on your soundcard's ASIO capabilities. ASIO, if you don't know, lets you monitor audio with near-zero delay. Either way the timing of the performance WOULD be captured correctly, it's just that without good ASIO drivers you might have trouble playing along in real time.

 

[Robert D]

When you play a V-Drum kit, and just record the audio out, you're sorta, kinda using midi already. When you hit a drum trigger, it creates an analog signal that represents the velocity of that hit. That signal goes into one trigger input on your TD-6 module. Inside the module that pulse is immediately sampled and turned into a digital word that expresses what trigger was hit, and what the velocity of the hit was. That info is then mapped according to the kit you select, and various user parameters like note assignments, to trigger the playback of the appropriate drum sample as quickly as possible.
The processor inside the TD-6, in a matter of microseconds, determines that you struck trigger x, that you struck it with x velocity, that you have assigned trigger x to A#, that A# is mapped to Snare sample x according to the kit you have selected, and it plays back the appropriate sample, modified by various other settings.
At the same time, it sends out to the midi out port that you had an A# note event of x velocity. At the other end of the midi cable, your sequencer can record that data, keep track of exactly when that A#/x velocity event occured relative to the project timeline, and can then on playback send that data back to the TD-6 to play the same drum hit at the precise time relative to the song timeline that you played it initially.
The big advantage is that if you want to change any timing, velocity, or drum piece selections during the project, you can do it by editing the midi file. Midi only sounds mechanical when it is programmed poorly, or a performance is quantitized to "perfect" timing.

 

[Dumby]

When you play a V-Drum kit, and just record the audio out, you're sorta, kinda using midi already. When you hit a drum trigger, it creates an analog signal that represents the velocity of that hit. That signal goes into one trigger input on your TD-6 module. Inside the module that pulse is immediately sampled and turned into a digital word that expresses what trigger was hit, and what the velocity of the hit was. That info is then mapped according to the kit you select, and various user parameters like note assignments, to trigger the playback of the appropriate drum sample as quickly as possible.
The processor inside the TD-6, in a matter of microseconds, determines that you struck trigger x, that you struck it with x velocity, that you have assigned trigger x to A#, that A# is mapped to Snare sample x according to the kit you have selected, and it plays back the appropriate sample, modified by various other settings.
At the same time, it sends out to the midi out port that you had an A# note event of x velocity. At the other end of the midi cable, your sequencer can record that data, keep track of exactly when that A#/x velocity event occured relative to the project timeline, and can then on playback send that data back to the TD-6 to play the same drum hit at the precise time relative to the song timeline that you played it initially.
The big advantage is that if you want to change any timing, velocity, or drum piece selections during the project, you can do it by editing the midi file. Midi only sounds mechanical when it is programmed poorly, or a performance is quantitized to "perfect" timing.

You're far too articulate and intelligent sounding to be hanging around here

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

Because BFD uses its own proprietary format, whereas DFH does not. Thus the need for a convertor..

The sound files in BFD are proprietary? Uh, that's a big no. They are all in .WAV format.

 

[sethbrand_12]

here is how i roll...

Hey guys,

I have the TD-6 drum set and I use it to record my drums into pro tools m-powered using midi. I play my drums just like an acoustic kit instead of just programming them. Once I have them in pro tools on a midi track, I have a way of splitting up all the tracks using midi and then recording each midi track, sometimes as many as 10, as an audio track for individual mixing. This is how I do it.

1. I plug my midi out on my td-6 to the midi in of my interface. then the midi out of the interface to the midi in on the td-6...(simple)

2. Set up a midi track in pro tools and set the input and output correctly

3. Most of the time I am playing along with a track and to compesate for latency, my monitors have rca inputs on them, as well as 1/4" inputs so I run a chord from the headphone out of the TD-6 to the rca inputs on my monitors. Then I run the outputs of my interface to the 1/4" inputs on my monitors. Then I run headphones out of the headphone jack on my monitors so I can play along with my session and hear my drums with NO latency!!! I hope that makes since.

4. After I have every thing working...i hit record and start playing along with my session or a click track. Once I have a decent drum take, I may quantize it or edit, whatever I need to do.

5. Now the fun and long part...I will split the midi notes by choosing spit notes or whatever it is called in pro tools, and this will put each individual drum on its own midi channel.

6. If I have 8 midi drum tracks now (after splitting them), I will then set up 8 audio mono tracks. I usually start with the kick, so I solo the kick track and one of the audio tracks for recording.

7. Then I will connect the Left (mono) stereo output of the TD-6 to my interface input 1 and hit record.

8. After the kick is recorded, I then move to snare and solo the snare track along with the next audio track and do the same thing.

This takes some time, but gives you as many drum tracks of audio on individual channels for mixing, effects, etc. Its great!!!

Here is a link to my myspace page. www.myspace.com/sethbrand12 I write and record my own music. On these two songs I am playing ALL of the instruments and singing, and the drums are recorded with my TD-6 set just as described above. Tell me what you think!!!

seth