Roland V-Drums in Sonar

[dachay2tnr]

I've got a mystery that I don't know if anyone can help with. But let's give it a shot.

I am recording Roland V-Drums into Sonar via MIDI. My specific problem has to do with the high hat. There are three notes used for the HH. One is the open high hat, one is the pedal, and the third is the closed high hat.

If you hit the open high hat, followed by the pedal you get the shhhhhhhop sound. In other words, the sizzle gets sharply cut off by the pedal. When I record this everything is fine.

But now I want to edit the track and add that sound via the piano roll view. However, in the PRV the open high hat note triggers the closed high hat sound. In other words the open high hat (A#) and the closed high hat (f#) are triggering the same sound.

This is driving me nuts, as I can not find the open high hat sound anywhere. It is almost as if it is being mapped to a note that doesn't exist in PRV.

I suspect I can solve this by simply playing the part and recording it, but I shouldn't have to do that.

So... anyone have any ideas?

 

[acidrock]

What is your sound source?
The V-drum module?Something else?
Did you try the VSC?

 

[dachay2tnr]

What is your sound source?
The V-drum module?Something else?
Did you try the VSC?

Yeah, the source is the V-drum module. I record midi from it, and then send the midi data back to the module to trigger and record audio.

When it records the open hh from the V-drum, it plays back an open hh. But when I enter an open hh in PRV and send to the to V-drum, it plays a closed hh.

I didn't try it using a different sound source. I can try that, but the sound I want to use is in the V-drum.

 

[acidrock]

Chances are the hi-hat pedal is sending a override message to the module.

In Roland's drum sound modules there is a function that allows one note to choke off another,so you can't get an open hi-hat to sound at the same time as the closed hi-hat.
This function serves other purposes,but this would be the most obvious.

Now I know you've recorded off the V-drums before,so you must be doing something different.

 

[dachay2tnr]

Now I know you've recorded off the V-drums before,so you must be doing something different.

Yes, many times. But I don't know that I ever tried to manually input an open high hat via PRV.

I assume that when the drummer steps on the hh pedal the module transmits a closed hh signal, and when he releases the pedal it transmit an open signal. I can see this in the recorded track in PRV - the open HH is mapped to A# and closed HH is mapped to F#. But when I manually enter a note in either A# or F#, I get a closed HH sound.

I even tried to copy and paste an existing open HH note to the new location. But the pasted note sounded as a closed HH, even though the copied note sounded as an open HH.

It's almost like in addition to the note, there is some controller signal needed as well.

 

[moskus]

So what you are saying that. The V-Drums sends 3 different notes, but only two are used? Isn't it the combination of two signals that makes the thirds?

I just got a little Yamaha DD-55 set (board with 7 pads on) and it took me a while to reprogram the DFH in DR-008, but now it works. I'm really new to this so bear with me.

 

[dachay2tnr]

The V-Drums sends 3 different notes, but only two are used?

Not quite. The V-Drum does send 3 notes (A# = open hh, G# = pedal, F# = closed hh). When they are sent from the V-drum, recorded in Sonar and the sent BACK to the V-drums, everything works fine.

However, when I manually enter an A# note in PRV and send that to the V-Drum for playback, it plays a closed hh sound instead of an open hh sound.

So apparently there is some difference between the way it is recorded from the V-Drum versus a manual entry. But, for the life of me, I can't figure out what the difference might be.

I'm gonna try playback using a DXi and see what happens. But even if it works properly, it doesn't really tell me anything about this problem.

 

[acidrock]

I'm gonna try playback using a DXi and see what happens. But even if it works properly, it doesn't really tell me anything about this problem.

In Roland's drum sound modules there is a function that allows one note to choke off another,so you can't get an open hi-hat to sound at the same time as the closed hi-hat.

The midi note that is being sent is correct,the drum module is not responding correctly because the pedal is in the open position and will not allow the closed hi-hat to sound.

I would first try a different sound source,I can almost guarantee it will sound properly.

Next I would disconnect the trigger cord coming from the hi-hat pedal and see if that does the trick.

There is a programing function to adjust this in the V-drums module,but you may not want to go there.

Have you tried triggering Kompakt or VSC directly from the V-drums?

 

[acidrock]

It's almost like in addition to the note, there is some controller signal needed as well.

Have you looked at the control pane to see if there was any midi input?
If you have access to the manual,I'd look for the controler nuber of the pedal,it probably is a straight on/off setting.
I'm curious about this for obvious reasons...

 

[dachay2tnr]

The midi note that is being sent is correct,the drum module is not responding correctly because the pedal is in the open position and will not allow the closed hi-hat to sound.

Well that would make sense EXCEPT the drum module is sounding the closed high hat sound, not the open high hat sound.

Also, why would it work properly when I transmit the pre-recorded midi data?

Have you looked at the control pane to see if there was any midi input?
If you have access to the manual,I'd look for the controler nuber of the pedal,it probably is a straight on/off setting.

I did look in the controller pane - but admitedly I don't know too much about controller signals. Anyway, I didn't see anything obvious.

The Roland module is not mine, so I don't have the manual. I'll have to see if I can get ahold of it.

 

[acidrock]

The really big question is,did you try it with another sound source to verify that the problem was indeed the sound module?

 

[dachay2tnr]

The really big question is,did you try it with another sound source to verify that the problem was indeed the sound module?

That would require me actually going down to my studio and turning on the machine.

Maybe I'll give it a shot this weekend.

While on the subject of turning on machines... did you check out the file I sent you? Thoughts?

 

[guttadaj]

Not quite. The V-Drum does send 3 notes (A# = open hh, G# = pedal, F# = closed hh). When they are sent from the V-drum, recorded in Sonar and the sent BACK to the V-drums, everything works fine.

However, when I manually enter an A# note in PRV and send that to the V-Drum for playback, it plays a closed hh sound instead of an open hh sound.

I was also thinking some sort of controller message, but if you say you looked and didn't see any, then what about this: Do you think maybe it's possible that the V-Drum module actually keeps track of Note On/Off messages for the pedal (G#)? So maybe if the last message for the pedal is Note Off then the open hh sounds, but if the last message for it is Note On then the closed hh sounds... I've never really heard of any MIDI stuff behaving like that before, but it's just a thought.

Sounds like a puzzling and frustrating problem. Let us know if you figure out what's doing that. Good luck.

 

[acidrock]

While on the subject of turning on machines... did you check out the file I sent you? Thoughts?

I was hoping you could get this issue resolved and perhaps get the midi file.
I did a quick mix,but that's not going to cut it,not that I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth....

 

[dachay2tnr]

I was hoping you could get this issue resolved and perhaps get the midi file.
I did a quick mix,but that's not going to cut it,not that I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth....

I didn't expect the mp3 to work as the final. However, I thought it would give you an idea of how the tracks were going to work. What was the main issue you had with them? (BTW, midi tracks have been sent).


For those playing along at home, when I output the midi drum tracks to a software sampler, the open/closed high hat issue went away. The A# note sounds as an open high hat when routed to the software synth, but sounds as a closed high hat when routed to the Roland TD-6. I still haven't figured out why, but I'm giving up for now. Obviously there is something else needed to tell the Roland module to sound an A# as an open high hat.