Rock Vocal Production - 'scooping' drilling EQ holes?

G

G-Jay

New member
Hi guys,

I'm fairly new around here, I hope you don't mind this slightly long post from a new member.

I've been recording and mixing music for over 10 years now. I'm slowly but surely improving my mixing skills to the level where I'm mostly happy with what I do and my mixes translate fairly well.

However, I'm not satisfied with my vocal production. I can get a great sounding recording and coax the vocalists to give convincing performances but I feel my mixing skills let me down here.

The music is modern rock and I want to put the vocal INSIDE the track rather than ON it. I hear people talk about drilling EQ holes in the other instruments(especially distorted guitar) or 'scooping' them to make space for the vocal to be strong but not overly loud. I don't really know how to do this and would greatly appreciate any advice or tips on how to make the vocal sit in with the track.

Thanks in advance,

Tony
 
First, as far as the EQ goes, check out this article for one great EQ technque to clean room for tracks to breathe with each other. I'd use it more on the instrumets and not so much on the vocal itself.

But a second - and maybe even stronger - thing I'd recommend is scooping space not via EQ but rather via actual mixing of the tracks. On an analog console this would mean actually playing fader jockey; in a digital DAW this would mean volume automation (and dynamic use of mute).

It can be hard to get vocals to mix with highly-compressed tracks and not just lay on top of them if you don't make those compressed tracks malleable. In this case that would mean not being afraid to bring certain instrument tracks down 2 or 3dB when the vocals kick in and then (optionally and judiciously) letting them come back up that small amount when the vocals are silent. The overall effect is a constant volume for the mix with the vocals nestled comfortably and filling in those 2-3dB "valleys".

Also, don't be afraid to play around with the arrangement dynamically. One does not always need every instrument full-bore all the time through the entire song. Sometimes less is more. When the vocals kick in, not only can you drop volume on competing tracks, but some tracks might make a more interesting mix if they go mostly silent during the verses and come in just for dynamic fill and choruses and such. Experiment around with that, it can not only make room for the vocals, it can - when done well - make the overall mix more dramatic and attention-holding.

G.
 
As I have been getting older, which relates to more experience not becoming an old fart, I am tending to rely less and less on eq to get a vocal sound.

I usually do shelve some lows I.E 150 Hz and lower, add a small amount of high 10K, for air, but not too much.

Only shelve some mids if the singer has a mid range peak type of voice. Like when you have a female singer that cranks all the mid range but has no power in the lows or highs.

With most singers I try to pick the right mic for them, which is sometimes not the best (most expensive) mic you have, to get the tone right at the start. The room also has to sound good.

Another thing is to Compress the vocal after the EQ, so the compressor is not acting on the unwanted frequencies. The killer way to top this off is to bring the vocal into the mix on 2 parallel channels, On one eq, compress, and add effects, on the other do nothing or very mild eq only. Mix the 2 channels within the overall mix. Really fills out the vocal.

Oh and if I keep giving away all my secrets I will be out of work soon.

Cheers

Alan.
 
For rock vocals, I tend to add somewhere around 2k until it starts to sound almost AM radio-ish. Then you can stick it back in the mix without it getting lost. That's assuming there isn't a ton of 2k in the guitars...
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

My question wasn't really about EQing the vocal track - I try and do as little of this as possible save for some high pass filtering and adding some 'air'.

My question was about EQing the other instruments to create a space for the vocal to sit in. For example cutting some guitar frequencies which compete with the vocal to give it more sonic space.

I was wondering if anyone has experience doing this and any tips and tricks to pass along.

Cheers,

Tony
 
G-Jay said:
Thanks for the replies guys.

My question wasn't really about EQing the vocal track - I try and do as little of this as possible save for some high pass filtering and adding some 'air'.

My question was about EQing the other instruments to create a space for the vocal to sit in. For example cutting some guitar frequencies which compete with the vocal to give it more sonic space.

I was wondering if anyone has experience doing this and any tips and tricks to pass along.

Cheers,

Tony
Click to expand...
OK, try taking some 2k out of the guitars...

You really have to do what the mix needs you to do. Having rules like "I try not to EQ the vocals" will keep you from getting the mix right when that is what is called for.

Remember, the listener doesn't care what method was used to get the mix, they just want it to sound good.
 
Hi,

Thanks again for replying.

I don't have 'rules' about mixing but I generally prefer a natural sounding vocal so I tend to EQ it minimally, just a high pass filter, an occasional tiny boost at 200 for body, and a touch of air. If I need more attitude I'm more likely looking at compression and/or subtle distortion.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
The question I have GJ, is what makes you believe that EQ is is the answer?

G.
Click to expand...

Well, when I want to get the kick and the bass to sit well together, I often take a 80-95hz notch out of the bass guitar and that allows the kick drum to come through while the bass remains solid.

When I want to give the guitar more room and clear some mud I look around 400hz on the bass guitar and kick drum tracks. When I want the backing vox to sound further away and not overshadow the main vocal, I quieten some high frequencies using a high shelf filter. When I want 2 guitars to sit well together, I EQ them in a different way.

So I figure if I want the vocal to be clear and present but not artificial sounding,and when I don't want to raise the vocal to ballad levels but I want it to come through I figure I need to clear some sonic space for it.

My huge mixing problem is that the vocals sound 'stuck on top' of the track rather than in it, even with short delays or minimal reverbs with lots of early reflections. So I'm guessing EQing of other instruments is what is needed.

I could well be totally wrong, that's why I was asking if it was something you guys did.
 
G-Jay said:
So I'm guessing EQing of other instruments is what is needed.
Click to expand...
Forget the guessing, what do you hear? Does it sound like there's a conflicting frequency range that's making the vocals sound like they're sitting on top? What are your ears telling you?

You're doing fine with the idea of giving each instrument it's own dominant "space" in the spectrum. But notice that in situations like with the bass/kick, what you''e doing is cutting down on masking; you're cutting the bass to let the kick come through from underneath. In the case of the guitars, you're kind of setting them along side each other in their dominant frequencies so that they are not stepping on each other and making each other.

In this case, though, you have the vocals riding on top of, not underneath, everything else. I'd suspect that notching the EQ out of the supporting tracks is probably not so much the issue - though if it is, Farview is probably the closest with his 2k suggestion.

I still suggest what I put in the first post as something to explore. If your current tracks are like hard clay with no dynamic texture, it's going to be difficult for your vocals to do anything but lie on top of them.

And additional idea I'd throw into the pot is the idea that much of the depth of a track is encoded in the recording itself. If your vocalists are swallowing the microphone, that track is going to sound like the vocalist is in your face. Not necessarily by frequency, but simply by the sonic image itself. Setting one's nose on the mic is fine for live performances, but not necessarily always appropriate for recording mixes. Try having the vocalist step away from the mic a good 6"-8" or so (more if they can really project). You can adjust the gain, but even with increased volume gain, the track will tend to still sound like it has more depth to it - in a way that cannot really be duplicated via artificial delay and verb. This alone can sometimes help push the vocal back into the mix a bit better.

G.
 
Thanks a lot for the tips. I'll definitely be looking at removing some 2k to give the vocals more room but I'll also be fader riding too.

I've used parallel compression for drums before but I've never really got it sounding good on vocals, I'll need to experiment more with this.

Thanks again - I appreciate all your time and advice,

Tony
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
And additional idea I'd throw into the pot is the idea that much of the depth of a track is encoded in the recording itself. If your vocalists are swallowing the microphone, that track is going to sound like the vocalist is in your face. Not necessarily by frequency, but simply by the sonic image itself. Setting one's nose on the mic is fine for live performances, but not necessarily always appropriate for recording mixes. Try having the vocalist step away from the mic a good 6"-8" or so (more if they can really project). You can adjust the gain, but even with increased volume gain, the track will tend to still sound like it has more depth to it - in a way that cannot really be duplicated via artificial delay and verb. This alone can sometimes help push the vocal back into the mix a bit better.

G.
Click to expand...

I think I just learned something here that I didn't know how to ask a question for. :D
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Also, don't be afraid to play around with the arrangement dynamically. One does not always need every instrument full-bore all the time through the entire song. Sometimes less is more. When the vocals kick in, not only can you drop volume on competing tracks, but some tracks might make a more interesting mix if they go mostly silent during the verses and come in just for dynamic fill and choruses and such. Experiment around with that, it can not only make room for the vocals, it can - when done well - make the overall mix more dramatic and attention-holding.
G.
Click to expand...

This.

Definitely the thing that separates (no pun intended) good mixes from great mixes.
 
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