Ribbon Mics

[PapaMan]

Question:
I'm new to home recording & hope I'm not asking a stupid question
Is it foolishness to want to record an entire acoustic project with ribbon mics?
I love the sound of them, have several, and I'm intrigued with the idea.

Any input?

Thanx.

 

[witzendoz]

No, it is not foolishness at all, in fact I have a repeat client coming up soon and she plays guitar, mandolin & banjo (not all at the same time LOL) while singing. To get separation a couple of albums ago I used all ribbon mics (fig8 of ribbons pattern works great in this regard), the ribbons suited her vocal better than anything else I had anyway, I would not have tried the ribbon usually so a nice surprise.

I reckon it's an interesting thought to use all ribbons on a project.

Alan.

 

[Tadpui]

I can't imagine why it would be any different than recording an album with any other kind of mic. Fire it up!

 

[Robus]

I'd like to hear the results. I have ribbon mic that sounds pretty good for certain things. I've been putting it in front of an electric guitar amp. I place it much farther from the amp than I would a dynamic mic, two or three feet or even more. It gives the guitar a silky tone that works in my music. I've found it's a bit dark for most other things, like vocals or acoustic guitar. There must be tricks I don't know.

 

[Simman]

No issue at all with using all ribbons. One added bonus of a ribbon mic is you can record into each side of the mic to produce a different tonality since the back side of the mic will be a bit brighter than the front.

 

[mixsit]

For their tones definitely and as said, fig-8's fantastic isolation.
I end up with them as sort of a first go to especially on clean guitar cabs. 5-6" out..
Then there's the times you don't want or need a tamed top though. (..CAD M179 : >)

Don't forget the pop screens for the vocalist.

On other thought with the ribbons, which I haven't gotten much use out of but might be something useful? Their high freq p/u is rather wide perpendicular to the ribbon, narrow parallel with the ribbon.

 

[mixsit]

No issue at all with using all ribbons. One added bonus of a ribbon mic is you can record into each side of the mic to produce a different tonality since the back side of the mic will be a bit brighter than the front.

Royer touts it as a sort of a 'bonus feature. Do most do it?

 

[ecc83]

Ribbons is great and making a bit of a come back with modern types that are more sensitive and more rugged. There are also a few active jobbies which side step the pre amp problem.

But there are issues to keep in mind. The fig 8 polar plot is, as said, great for rejection but the "backside" will pickup more "room" and ambient noise than a cardiod. Yes, you can get two sources around a ribbon but don't forget they will be mutually out of phase! Possible mixdown.mono problems.

Can't see why the reverse of a ribbon should be brighter than the front? But then I don't have a Royer to try!

Dave.

 

[Jake_JW]

I use an Se Electronics ribbon and both sides are more or less identical. Fantastic cheapo mic, considering getting another one next year so I can use them for M/S pairs.

Could just be a Royer thing as they seem to be the only people making a fuss about it.

 

[mixsit]

... But there are issues to keep in mind. The fig 8 polar plot is, as said, great for rejection but the "backside" will pickup more "room" and ambient noise than a cardiod. ..

I've had very good luck with the rear lobe looking into a gobo. Best of both- isolates from the sides, very attenuated back level.

 

[ecc83]

I've had very good luck with the rear lobe looking into a gobo. Best of both

Yup. THAT's what I mean by "keeping the issues in mind"!

Dave.

 

[Simman]

Royer touts it as a sort of a 'bonus feature. Do most do it?

That's a function of the figure 8

 

[gecko zzed]

Can't see why the reverse of a ribbon should be brighter than the front? But then I don't have a Royer to try!

\Nor can I. But it is also the case with the new Rode NTR which I have.

 

[ecc83]

That's a function of the figure 8

Hmm, if you are saying that ribbons have a greater HF response on the "wrong side" as a general rule I would like to see some evidence of that? Polar plots for example.

Most ribbons are symmetrical about their vertical axis and so, all things being equal, will have a symmetrical response. There are variants. The famous Coles 4038 has the iconic depression in the case (which is to correct diffraction effects at HF and smooth the response hence I doubt anyone would use a 4038 OTHER than the right way!).

My Reslo RBs have magnets across the back of the ribbon and pads to allow close talking, (see Cavern shots!) they are surely going to be dimmer from the wrong side?

Bit OT but. My Reslos are 30 Ohms and so I bought a 1:4 lifting transformer from Sowter. Works a treat and gives the ribbon about the same sensitivity as an SM57. Unfortunately modern ribbons are usually 150-200 Ohms so you can't do the same trick. A 1:2 traff would give you a 6dB gain (and less noise) but at 40quid a pop you would do better to put the traff cash toward a Fethead or Cloudlifter.

Dave.

 

[Simman]

Hmm, if you are saying that ribbons have a greater HF response on the "wrong side" as a general rule I would like to see some evidence of that? Polar plots for example.

Most ribbons are symmetrical about their vertical axis and so, all things being equal, will have a symmetrical response. There are variants. The famous Coles 4038 has the iconic depression in the case (which is to correct diffraction effects at HF and smooth the response hence I doubt anyone would use a 4038 OTHER than the right way!).

My Reslo RBs have magnets across the back of the ribbon and pads to allow close talking, (see Cavern shots!) they are surely going to be dimmer from the wrong side?

Bit OT but. My Reslos are 30 Ohms and so I bought a 1:4 lifting transformer from Sowter. Works a treat and gives the ribbon about the same sensitivity as an SM57. Unfortunately modern ribbons are usually 150-200 Ohms so you can't do the same trick. A 1:2 traff would give you a 6dB gain (and less noise) but at 40quid a pop you would do better to put the traff cash toward a Fethead or Cloudlifter.

Dave.

I didn't intend my comment as a general rule although my statement about the brightness being a function of the figure 8 might be an oversimplification.

However, your assumption - "assumes" all things are equal which is not always the case. For example, Royer R series mic (by patented design) off set the ribbon transducer slightly forward thereby creating more space behind the element. That addition space actually makes the back side (not sure I agree with your wrong side premise) a bit brighter. Visit their website, they provide audio samples.

I have other ribbons that seem to exhibit some slight front-to-back sonic differences as well but those probably not by design and are likely more related to lower build quality, ribbon tension, and or sag, etc.

I'm no mic designer or acoustics engineer but I know what I hear. I'm sure there are a lot of properties that can effect the way a mic translates a source.

 

[ecc83]

I do not disagree with the claims for the Royer. My point is that a "bright side" is not, AFAIK, a function of the figure 8 characteristic nor the velocity sensitive motor principle (which IS responsible for the LF proximity effect.

What any particular person hears is up to them and their particular circumstances but only in THIS discussion have I ever heard it suggested that ribbon microphones have an inherently bright side and that it is moreover on the "wrong" side.

I too am no acoustics engineer but I wish I had not sold my old BBC book about microphone design many years ago when times where harder!

Dave.

 

[Simman]

I do not disagree with the claims for the Royer. My point is that a "bright side" is not, AFAIK, a function of the figure 8 characteristic nor the velocity sensitive motor principle (which IS responsible for the LF proximity effect.

What any particular person hears is up to them and their particular circumstances but only in THIS discussion have I ever heard it suggested that ribbon microphones have an inherently bright side and that it is moreover on the "wrong" side.

I too am no acoustics engineer but I wish I had not sold my old BBC book about microphone design many years ago when times where harder!

Dave.

Dave, I was actually editeding my response to clarify my statement about the figure 8 as an oversimplification of the point I was trying to make albeit a failed attempt

Peace

Bill

 

[ecc83]

Peace indeed Bill.

Dave.