ribbon mic vs large-diaphragm mics

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raven46

raven46

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whats the story with ribbon mics compared to large-diaphragm mics

im not asking about all the tech stuff but as in quality and performance for vox but any info in relation to the two would be helpful, im thinking bout buying the rode nt2-a and was looking through the thomann list of mics and came across the ribbon mics and was wondering which would be a better buy, the ribbon mic i have linked below is just picked at random...

ribbon mic
http://www.thomann.de/index.html?partner_id=97926&page=ie/oktava_ml52_baendchenmikrofon.htm

large-diaphragm mic
http://www.thomann.de/index.html?partner_id=97926&page=ie/rode_nt2asm2.htm
 
They are completely different animals. The Rode will have much more high frequency response; the ribbon is figure 8 whereas the Rode is multipattern. The Rode will sound much more detailed; the ribbon will be smoother. The Rode is much hotter than the ribbon.

Especially with the multiple polar patterns, the Rode would tend to be more all-purpose, but then depending on the voice, the ribbon could be brilliant. Ideally it's not an either-or proposition, but if you had to pick one for now, I'd take the multipattern condenser.
 
cheers for that...

i read the ribbons are very fragile they cant handle loud sounds and are expensive to replace is that true even with todays build quality

i will be using the mic for vox only so i guess the condenser mic would be a better all rounder

in that price range 400 to 500euro is the rode is a good condenser choice
 
raven46 said:
cheers for that...

i read the ribbons are very fragile they cant handle loud sounds and are expensive to replace is that true even with todays build quality
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No, they usually can handle loud sounds, it's air movement that is fatal. How suspectible the ribbon is to wind or breath damage depends on its screening. Traditionally, ribbon mics were heavily screened, which didn't do wonders for their already weak high-end response. Some of the newer ribbons are less well protected, although I understand the Oktava's screening is still substantial.
 
mshilarious said:
No, they usually can handle loud sounds, it's air movement that is fatal. How suspectible the ribbon is to wind or breath damage depends on its screening. Traditionally, ribbon mics were heavily screened, which didn't do wonders for their already weak high-end response. Some of the newer ribbons are less well protected, although I understand the Oktava's screening is still substantial.
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fuck it, ill go with the condenser i dont like the risk... i hav'nt got money to burn :)

just out of curiosity is there any condenser that has the smoothness of a ribbon or is that just stupid thinking :o
 
raven46 said:
fuck it, ill go with the condenser i dont like the risk... i hav'nt got money to burn :)

just out of curiosity is there any condenser that has the smoothness of a ribbon or is that just stupid thinking :o
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The most ribbonish condenser I've used is the Baby Blue Bottle, but it's still not really the same. The best bet is to get an all-around condenser, and then follow up later with a ribbon. There are lots of ribbon options around these days that aren't expensive.
 
mshilarious said:
The most ribbonish condenser I've used is the Baby Blue Bottle, but it's still not really the same. The best bet is to get an all-around condenser, and then follow up later with a ribbon. There are lots of ribbon options around these days that aren't expensive.
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baby blue bottle mics are weird mad looking mics :)
 
mshilarious said:
They are completely different animals. The Rode will have much more high frequency response.
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That ribbon, yeah. The Oktava mics are all somewhat dark, and their ribbon triply so.

In general, I wouldn't make that assumption, though. AFAIK, a ribbon motor should generally reproduce HF very well, but most of it gets lost due to HF loss in the transformer, etc. and HF signal loss due to cable length combined with too low an impedance on the preamp, etc. All those other factors add up quickly.

For a counterexample, though, the AEA R92 (according to specs) has solid response up to 19kHz. (It's also an $800 ribbon mic, but....) I'm not sure exactly what they changed (besides a larger ribbon, apparently), but that's pretty stunning for a passive ribbon.

Active ribbons also often have excellent frequency response for much the same reason that condenser mics do (a FET stage just inches from the capsule or ribbon motor). The Blue Woodpecker reports a top end at 20 kHz. (It's a $1000 ribbon mic, but....)

I'm sure you know all this, but I wanted to point that out just in case some newbie reads this and interprets your statement as "ribbons have bad HF response"... which is usually true, but not always.
 
dgatwood said:
Active ribbons also often have excellent frequency response for much the same reason that condenser mics do (a FET stage just inches from the capsule or ribbon motor). The Blue Woodpecker reports a top end at 20 kHz. (It's a $1000 ribbon mic, but....)
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I think we sorted talked about this on that group buy board, but I just had a look at the Woodpecker specs, and that has to be the strangest frequency response I've seen. It's got to be incorporating proximity effect, either that or the active circuit has a really weird onboard filter. But it does show good HF response.

Anyway, those specs show the penalty of the active ribbon approach: self-noise at 22dBA. Now I ain't one to talk, but it does point out the difference between a condenser element and a ribbon motor: the condenser is high-output high-impedance, so a FET buffer can result in an extremely low noise with a large diaphragm mic. The ribbon motor is the opposite; low output, low impedance. So you almost have to put some kind of transformer in front of the FET (which isn't even necessary, a quieter BJT would do) or the noise gets too high. Now Blue is known for doing very low noise condenser mics, and they say this is their "low noise discrete class A circuit", which shows you the problem with applying that approach to a (presumably transformerless) ribbon.

I also don't understand the absolute need for +48V when there is no capsule bias voltage required.

OP: sorry, we are way off topic, but this stuff is fun to talk about :o
 
...how about a third choice...a good dynamic will have characteristics that are shared by both ribbons and condensers...the Shure SM7 is a major crowd pleaser, and the Heil PR40 adds a kinda "sheen" and improved bottom to the dynamic that very much resembles a condenser (without all the sensitivity to ambient sounds)...might be worth considering a quality dynamic ;)
 
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