Rhyming.Hummmmm

  • Thread starter Thread starter Henri Devill
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Well beaverbiscuit, I'm not sure what you thought I meant,

And neither do I.

I think I would condense my rhyming theory and say 'rhymes are good, but lyrics come first'.

I admire the sheer technical perfection of Stepehen Sondheim, he's carrying on a pure tradition of the Gershwins and Cole Porter, and all those guys. But I too would play a Randy Newman record first anyday. If you compare 'send in the clowns' to, say, 'sail away', Randy Newman wins hand down as far as the total effect of the song goes.

As for my own songrwriting, the rhymes just come naturally, or they don't. What I'm trying to say in the song comes first. I think rhyming is a very important and effective tool, but it's only a part of a song.

I can think of only a few instances where I put in a line for the rhyme.

Here's one that's been bothering me a LONG time:

What have I dragged you into,
I know you can’t live like this
All this living hand to mouth
Leaves no time for a kiss
I love you I love you I love you
That’s all I can think to say
I know I’ve said it before,
What more can I say?


- the 'no time for a kiss' line is too, i don't know, too trite?, obvious?, but the song just needs that rhyme in there.
 
Gentle on my mind!

Glad you mentioned that song!

It's in my all-time favorite list, one of those songs thats just on a higher level than most music. I don't know if it's the rambling, talking blues element, or the decending bassline in the melody or what, but that's one damned fine song!

'Mr. Bojangles' is another song that has those elements, good rhymes, and is utterly timeless in it's excellence.

Also 'City of New Orleans'.

But I'll stop before I admit too much of my love for AM easy-listening radio.
 
I miss the way we kissed....The "Ed" at the end of kiss{ed}.. This pulls the perfect rhyme out just a little so it doesn't sound so mechanical..I know {you} can't live this way.. how about "we" can't live this way..Include yourself..just ideas..good luck



Don
 
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Henri Devill said:
I miss the way we kissed....The "Ed" at the end of kiss{ed}.. This pulls the perfect rhyme out just a little so it doesn't sound so mechanical..I know {you} can't live this way.. how about "we" can't live this way..Include yourself..just ideas..good luck



Don
Click to expand...

Nice suggestion, Henri. Not only a good alternative, but you gave a bonus internal rhyme with the "miss/kissed" in the same line. Sweet!

Eric J, I think I got bushwhacked by the phrase "not sure if that's technically rhyming or not" from your earlier post. Although you were referring to alliteration, I guess I jumped all over the significance of technically perfect rhymes and just ran roughshod about the place. Oops and sorry 'bout that :).

But I agree with you that the rhyme comes naturally or it doesn't. I find that if I'm having too much trouble making the rhyme work, I probably need to rephrase the line in some way. You know, reorder or reposition the wording, maybe try to express the same idea with a whole new batch of words. If you force a rhyme, it's gonna stand out in an unattractive way.

Man, you guys have got it goin' on up in here! I love this give and take in the forums, especially this one. Thanks for playing :D.
 
You'd be surprised at how often you can use the same word at the end of two successive lines. Most listeners don't care about rules -- or even notice. And it's not lazy, it just sometimes calls for it.

Bodhisan
 
Yeah, but. . .

. . . I really don't like it when two lines have the same word for the rhyme. Not that you don't have a point, Bodhisan, but it's just one of my pet peeves. A classic example comes from "Shout It Out Loud" by Kiss; it's in Gene's vocal part right before the second refrain, and the rhyming words are "understand" and "stand." Yeah, maybe those were the best words for the job, but it still rubs me the wrong way.

Like Kiss cares what I think one way or the other :p.
 
Beaverbiscuit,

Hey, everybody's gotta have their little peeves. One of mine is rhyming girl with world, but, hey, there are songs out there that have sold millions with that rhyme, just as "Shout it" is one of Kiss's biggest hits.

What the frick do we know?

Bodhisan
 
Right, bodhisan, that's what I'm getting at. As long as they don't pass legislation stating that rhymes *must* be perfect or some other such thing, I'll avoid the use of repeat words like the plague and keep on using imperfect rhymes whenever I need to. If they ever institute a "Songwriting Police Force" I'll go underground :D.

Thanks for the input, btw.
 
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That's what I believe in, bro. I love imperfect rhymes, and a good example of that is something Rolling Stone even published back in the late 70's in their poll as "best odd couplet," of a couple of verses in Steve Miller's "Take The Money and Run."

I don't think I can remember the entire lines, but the rhymes were "Texas" and "facts is." There was another line in that song too, with odd rhymes.

I love it!

Bodhisan
 
Well, steve miller does do weird things,

like make up his own words!

'pompitus of love' was always one of my favorites.

Here's the words to take the money and run, minus the chorus:

This here's a story about Billy Joe and Bobbie Sue
Two young lovers with nothin' better to do
Than sit around the house, get high, and watch the tube
And here is what happened when they decided to cut loose

They headed down to, ooh, old El Paso
That's where they ran into a great big hassle
Billy Joe shot a man while robbing his castle
Bobbie Sue took the money and run


Billy Mack is a detective down in Texas
You know he knows just exactly what the facts is
He ain't gonna let those two escape justice
He makes his livin' off of the people's taxes

Bobbie Sue, whoa, whoa, she slipped away
Billy Joe caught up to her the very next day
They got the money, hey
You know they got away
They headed down south and they're still running today
Singin' go on take the money and run
 
Hey Eric J, wasn't there some sort of ruckus regarding the "pompitous of love" bit in this song? I was thinking there was some question as to who actually came up with that line, and some older bluesman had claimed he wrote it. Anyone recall that, or is it some figment of my once drug-soaked imagination :rolleyes:?
 
Ah, yes...the other one was rhyming "El Paso" with "big hassle." Simply genious. (I haven't heard the squabble over pompitous, but I wouldn't be that proud to claim it...)
 
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