Reverbs - how do you use them in a mix?

ido1957

ido1957

9K Gold Member
I've never explored reverb too much in the past. I have the Pantheon reverb I got with Sonar. There's a few dozen presets to choose from but I stick with Concert Hall almost exclusively. Send the guitars and vocals to the reverb bus and adjust so that it's there but not apparent (that seems to be the norm today compared to the 80's).
Let's say you're mixing mainly what I play - Rhythm Guitars, Lead Guitar, Drums, Bass, Lead Vocal and BG Vocal. What kind of reverbs would you use on a "typical" mix? Now I know it's all dependent but I'm looking for some tips on what might be average/typical.
For example, would you mix plate with hall and room and how would you apply them? What about room sizes and tails etc....
I'm hoping to get some ideas as to where to start going forward so I don't waste hours and hours on applications that are just not suitable.
Thanks!
 
And totally dependent on the source, what you have, what you want, etc. And then what you do with the signals -- You can send a signal to a verb and be done with it, or you can EQ the send signal, compress it, compress the verb itself, EQ the return signal, etc., etc., etc. (it's pretty rare that my input signal is untouched and probably just as rare that the return signal is what's actually coming out of the reverb unit).

I don't mean to make things even more complicated, but it's all there and there are no rules.

If there's any sort of "typical" [CAN OF WORMS], it's probably something along the lines of rooms and/or halls on most instruments and plates on most lead vocals. Send signals on vocals might have a very heavy de-esser before the input to stop that "zing" when sibilance occurs, drum sends might have extremely heavy compression on the send to add a little thunder when those hits aren't as thunderous as you like and the top end EQ'd out to make it "less hard-surfaced" --- blah, blah, sky's the limit, etc., yada, yada.

And then yeah, as little as possible. Unless you want a lot. Then as much as possible.

[/CAN OF WORMS]
 
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General rule for me is that I wouldn't put reverb on bass, or most electric guitars at all, unless it was for a particular effected sound I was after. Acoustic guitars I put a little on. And lead vocals a bit more, but I tend to ramp it up on backing vocals.

A lot depends on the density of the mix too.... lately my mixes have had a zillion guitars on them so I tend to use less in those situations. I use Reaper's convolution reverbs and pretty much pick something not too cavernous at random and use the same one in varying amounts across the mix.

But I know nothing... and Massive's just given me a whole lot of food for thought. :D
 
Learning pre-delay has helped me. I also send a delay into a reverb for a cool tailing effect. I find a lot of reverbs sound pretty bad, (thus Gregs suggestion) but I have two room reverbs that sound really nice, called NY Studio and LA Studio, they make a close mic'ed track sound like it was done in a good room. UAD has a new effect out that's a virtual room with mic placement etc. that looks pretty cool, (compared to most dated DAW digital reverbs)
 
MM, you just blew my mind. Now to try to translate these concepts into Reaper-speak...

I'm anxious to see where this thread goes. I've been trying so many reverbs lately, and with little success.
 
I'm gravitating to other options and I know the Pantheon isn't regarded as top end' but I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the Pantheon as a general drum verb, and other duties. (medium to shortish' stuff, adding a bit or space or wash.

Just flipped through some of my presets- 'Room, Ambiance and Chamber mostly. 7 -- 18, 25meters. Most under a second (or well under.
 
ido1957 said:
...adjust so that it's there but not apparent (that seems to be the norm today compared to the 80's).
Let's say you're mixing mainly what I play - Rhythm Guitars, Lead Guitar, Drums, Bass, Lead Vocal and BG Vocal. What kind of reverbs would you use on a "typical" mix? Now I know it's all dependent but I'm looking for some tips on what might be average/typical.
For example, would you mix plate with hall and room and how would you apply them? What about room sizes and tails etc....
Click to expand...
I'd say start completely dry, but go for a mix that gets as much as you can out of it w/o fx first. Sometimes that -getting it to sound as much as you can like a band (or what ever) is already there, and the compressors help bring out things as well.
Then try some ambiance (space') on a few things. One space that works' and blends in a way that doesn't want you to say 'fake. Kit', maybe a guitar or two?
Start simple. Do a save as'. Let it rest, and begin again with what the mix is now telling you.
Frankly, I find space tough to do (do well' any way). 'Big spaces.. even harder to not scream 'fake ;)
 
Sigh..... IMO reverb is best left in the background....lol

That being said, it is the placement of a verb in in any mix that works for the song.

In my typical usage, I will eq most drum and vocal verbs with almost no low end whatsoever (HPF). Never a reverb on overhead drum mics. If I hear a reverb, it is way too much. This is genre specific though. I do mostly heavy rock stuff. YMMV (your mileage may vary).

I would never suggest using reverb as an effect. Use it to find a place for instruments in a space that 'needs' placement. I am sure that made no sense at all, but it is reality. IMO. :)
 
jimmys69 said:
Sigh..... IMO reverb is best left in the background....lol

That being said, it is the placement of a verb in in any mix that works for the song.

In my typical usage, I will eq most drum and vocal verbs with almost no low end whatsoever (HPF). Never a reverb on overhead drum mics. If I hear a reverb, it is way too much. This is genre specific though. I do mostly heavy rock stuff. YMMV (your mileage may vary).
:)
Click to expand...
And there you go ..too.
There has to be a need- and the space for it. :)
I don't do heavy' (did a few, came out nice.. Ooops :facepalm: 'nice heavy..:D
Anyway, I like the challenge of finding and making the spaces. From our rather dry smallish recording spaces to...
 
mixsit said:
And there you go ..too.
There has to be a need- and the space for it. :)
I don't do heavy' (did a few, came out nice.. Ooops :facepalm: 'nice heavy..:D
Anyway, I like the challenge of finding and making the spaces. From our rather dry smallish recording spaces to...
Click to expand...

And that is the point there. Reverb is never necessary, unless it is. That is not a selling point, but more of a 'anti' sell. lol!

I used to love reverb, until I realized how minimal it is actually used. Then I found how often/well it works in almost non-audible amounts.

There is something to be said about the advice of 'when you actually hear the reverb, pull it back a bit'. There is more to do with 'when you need reverb, start asking why'. Then refer to the previous quote. Then pull it back some more. :)
 
Hey here's one- UAD's EMT-250 (not the plate'
Does a nice warm retro glow thing- not bad hearing it wrap around some. Used it as sort of let's try it as a default start point' on a blues/Americana project, now I'm having trouble getting them even let me stray from the roughs'. ;)
 
I think your use of reverb is based on the environment you work in. If you work in a big studio with a big live room, you may not need to use artificial reverb at all if you use room mics. Smaller home and project studio owners I would think rely heavily on artificial reverb.

I like to think of artificial reverb - in most mixing situations - as an emulation of real acoustic environments. Although, sometimes you need "that reverb sound" if you're doing something a bit retro or are going for a specific effect.

I think the most important part of reverb is early reflection. The ear/brain hears these first and is a big tool for creating a "space" around certain instruments. Ambiance reverbs, IMO, are used far more than actual reverb. Not to say longer reverbs aren't used. Of course they are. I just think they're used more judiciously because you can muddy things up really quickly.

Personally, I use short roomverbs - mostly impulses like the Samplicity Bricasti impulses - for drums to create an emulated studio space. I've described this method a few times on here. I set the balance via sends to create the illusion of room mics and then process them to taste.

For everything else it varies. I like very short, bright room/ambiance sounds on vocals to give the impression of a space around them, which helps blend them into the mix a little better. Without it they often sound like they're separated from the mix. Often adding ambiance to vocals causes you to pull them back a bit due to increased clarity. If it's a delicate song with lots of space in the instrumentation I'll select something like a warm plate sound. Judicious is the word here. I hate songs washed in reverb, particularly long reverbs that are too bright. Listening to some oldies on Sunday I was appalled at how big some reverbs were back in the 80's and every time there was an "s" the reverb became bright, fluttery and spitty. Yuck.

I know that Bruce Swedien has said that he would have Michael Jackson sing a take right up against the mic and then do subsequent takes progressively further away to capture the early reflections of the room. Blending them all together achieved a fantastic vocal sound with lots of character and space. Then again, working with MJ that couldn't have been to difficult.

Other reverbs are auditioned based on what I need. Once again it comes down to what's available and knowing your tools. Experimentation is fun but it takes time so generally there are a few go-to reverbs that I look to first and if they don't work I'll move on to other options.

Cheers :)
 
I'm curious about this:

Massive Master said:
...Send signals on vocals might have a very heavy de-esser before the input to stop that "zing" when sibilance occurs, drum sends might have extremely heavy compression on the send to add a little thunder when those hits aren't as thunderous as you like and the top end EQ'd out to make it "less hard-surfaced"...
Click to expand...

In a DAW like Reaper, where send/return effects are hosted on a regular track and other tracks are routed to them, how would I implement something like this?

Say I have a reverb hosted on one track, 100% wet/0% dry, and a vocal on another track. Normally I'd route the vocal track to the reverb track and adjust the return level to taste. How would I go about putting a de-esser between the two?

My first thought would be to host the de-esser on another track, route the vocals to the de-esser track, then route the de-esser track to the reverb track. But does that accomplish what MM described above?
 
I'm often told that my mixes sound drier than most, which I take as being a good thing. But the funny thing is, after reading through this thread, I seem to use more reverb than others. I'll put quite a bit on my drums, a little less on my guitars, and none on the bass. On vocals, I'll often use the same reverb that I use on everything else, but sometimes I use a separate reverb, rarely though. I prefer a touch of delay on vocals, but I'll put some reverb on them just to "glue" them in the same "room" as everything else.

Weird, my room must be drier than I realized because I need to put quite a bit of reverb on my drums especially, or else they sound a little too dry, no matter what I'm going for.

I use Impulse Responses almost exclusively. I have a shitload of Lexicon rooms, halls and plates. They're awesome. If anyone wants them, let me know, I can send them to you.
 
Don't fear the reverb. :)

Like Mo Facta said, unless you have access to wonderful ambient rooms and halls, adding reverb to the mix is the only other way.
And like MM said....there is no one way/type to add to everything, though yeah, Plates on vocals has been my go-to almost always, and Large/Medium Room or Hall on the instruments....but not all the time on all the tracks, on every song.
You have to listen to your mix and then decide what kind of texture you want.
Everything slathered in reverb is very annoyiing and as boring as everything 100% dry, which is not a natural occurring thing.

If you want an instrument to have a more percussive/tight effect on the mix, you may want to use little or none, and likewise, if you need something to have that airy, wide feel, then some reverb might work.
Also, sometimes using delay on some tracks instead of reverb, works better...and then blend those tracks with others that are left dry, and maybe 1-2 that have reverb.
Generally I almost always use reverb on vocals and lead guitars, sometimes on rhythm guitars, occasionally on keys....but it's a song-by-song decision.

I have about 5-6 reverb presets on my outboard units that get used all the time. They've been tweaked to taste, and I have a short, medium and long versions of a couple of my favorite ones, and then a few additional types/lengths for when the songs calls for something different. I don't use more than a couple of reverb types on any given song...and I just set each up on it's own Aux channel, and then send whatever tracks I want use reverb on to the appropriate Aux, and adjust the level of the send for how much reverb level I want on each track.
 
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