reverb

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tc4b

tc4b

Yeah I been drinkin, SO!?
I'm considering upgrading my reverb, or just not using reverb at all anymore. The only time I use it is on my own vocals, which are not very good. It sorta obscures them, like putting vasaline on a camera lens when photographing an ugly chick. I have never liked it on anything else in my studio, in fact it really annoys me on some professional recordings (example: New York State of Mind by Billy Joel). The reason I almost never like my reverb MAY be because it's a $90 Behringer. So I guess my question is, what's the purpose of reverb in the first place? I'm not looking for answers like "I just KNOW... I can just HEAR when it's needed..." I don't doubt the veracity of such statements, it's just they won't help me. So, what specifically do you use reverb for? Anyone else use it just to smooth over crappy performances? Anyone think it actually think it ADDS something to a good performance? Is it totally intangible, just based on the instincts of people with better ears than me? Thanks for your help!
 
on vocals, i'm getting into a habit of only adding a tiny touch of 'verb to them... often with a fairly big 'room' size, or whatever variation your unit has, but a fairly quick delay, and a mainly dry signal (30% wet, if that makes any sense.) i feel it often warms up the sound while still leaving it clear and unmuddy, 'specially on my fairly bassy voice. maybe doesn't work quite as well on female vocals, where i think you can get a way with a slightly more obvious effect.

but that's just me :o

Andy
 
tc4b said:
I'm considering upgrading my reverb, or just not using reverb at all anymore. The only time I use it is on my own vocals, which are not very good. It sorta obscures them, like putting vasaline on a camera lens when photographing an ugly chick. I have never liked it on anything else in my studio, in fact it really annoys me on some professional recordings (example: New York State of Mind by Billy Joel). The reason I almost never like my reverb MAY be because it's a $90 Behringer. So I guess my question is, what's the purpose of reverb in the first place? I'm not looking for answers like "I just KNOW... I can just HEAR when it's needed..." I don't doubt the veracity of such statements, it's just they won't help me. So, what specifically do you use reverb for? Anyone else use it just to smooth over crappy performances? Anyone think it actually think it ADDS something to a good performance? Is it totally intangible, just based on the instincts of people with better ears than me? Thanks for your help!
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bad reverb sounds bad. large amounts of bad reverb sound worse. large amounts of good reverb usually sounds strange. reverb is'nt a bad thing. using it badly is. i'm betting that the behringer reverb you're using sounds bad. if you ask me, reverb is like any other tool. someone with a good ear for it can use a crappy reverb judiciously for creative effects and come out with a useable result. someone with no or very little experience can make the best reverb in the world sound tacky.

i'm a guitar player so i'll try to explain it like this. when you start out playing guitar, you don't know a good guitar from a bad one. you have to develope some amount of playing ability and have experience playing alot of guitars to be able to distinguish the good from the bad. you'll also have your own personal preferences among the guitars that you've determined to be good. the only way to start out with a good guitar is to take advice from someone that you trust and who has experience playing alot of guitars. it can still be a crap shoot because that person may have developed preferences that don't suit your taste in the long run.

probably the best thing you can do is to take advice from someone you trust and try to be sensitive to your own likes and dislikes while you own the thing. when you move on, you will be more focused on your own preferences. eventually you will settle in with something that you like. after having your trusty and likeable thinga ma jig for awhile, your ears will likely crave other flavors and so the cycle begins again. but this time, you'll be adding another tool to your box, not replacing one.

it's the same with any other gear. make the most of what you have and learn it's strengths and weaknesses. if you can't accomplish what you want with what you have, either modify your goal to incorporate the thinga ma jig or move on to another thinga ma jig. if at some point you are'nt able to move on, then you make the most of what you have.

if you sincerely feel that reverb is a bad thing, then don't use it. don't lie to yourself though. how much effort have you really put into learning how to use reverb?
 
Reverb is just another one of the many sound condiments one can apply to their music. Just like compression, delays or any other effect. The trick is to NOT overdo it. Just a little goes a long way most of the time. And the worst you can do is put everything into an effect send. You'll end up with a jumbled sonic mess and NO way to control it in the mix. Just like I HATE to see someone slather on ketchup on a fine steak.....it's an abomination......so is too much reverb....get it? :p
 
TravisinFlorida said:
don't lie to yourself though. how much effort have you really put into learning how to use reverb?
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I sure spent enough hours screwing around with the verbs I have (incl. the ones in protools), though I can't say for sure how much I really learned. It's very helpful to hear about it from more experienced people like yous guys.

I know what you mean about personal preference, I never buy a musical instrument (including effects or monitors, etc.) without testing it, and I certainly don't want to plunk mony down on something that I really don't know how to use, hence my question here: how and why is reverb used by people who have more experience than me? Or, what do I even want reverb to do for me?
 
i was told this when i was starting out and it truly rings home today...

sit there and figure out how much reverb sounds cool to you
then use a quarter of that and you're probably all set
 
Reverb goes in and out of fashion, in terms of how much of it to use. In general, things are kept a bit dryer now than in the past. A lot of that has to do with rap and hip hop, in which the vocals have to be dryer in order to catch all the words. Pop vocals will still be mixed a lot wetter.

One way to approach reverb is that you shouldn't really notice it when you are listening to the whole mix. It's there, you can hear it, but it doesn't call attention to itself. If you solo the track with the reverb, then yes you can hear it. But in the whole mix you don't notice it.
 
tc4b said:
how and why is reverb used by people who have more experience than me? Or, what do I even want reverb to do for me?
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if you don't know why you want reverb on a track or mix, maybe you should leave it alone until you have a reason to use it. i don't mean that in a bad way but seriously, why waste your time. i'm learning electronics theory and i could go out and get myself an oscilloscope. then i could ask people what to do with it. it does'nt make sense though. when i reach the point where i'm actually analyzing circuits and i say to myself "i wish i had a tool that could help me figure this out", then i will look into wether it would benefit me.

don't get me wrong. i suck with reverb. :D really i do. i suck at the whole mixing thing. there's a really good chance that you have more experience than i do. i blame my bad mixing skills on lack of experience but it just might be that i suck all together. :D only time will tell. anyway, here's the thing. i can hear alot of things in other peoples mixes that i want to be able to do. i have sat and listened to mixes while trying to figure out how certain aspects of those mixes were created. i'm not at the level of being able to recreate many of the things i hear in mixes but i am gradually becoming more aware of what's going on in mixes. i could be going about it ass backwards but i think that listening to other peoples mixes for ideas of how audio tools are used is a prerequisite to actually using the tools.

people with more experience can tell you that they use reverb to add dimension, to divide, to place things in the soundscape, shape tonality, etc. but would'nt you rather hear these things than read about them? just pop in a cd you like and start listening. just my $0.02.
 
this reminds me of when i was 11 and my little punk band and i went to the studio for the first time to slap down 5 songs in 3 hours...

i asked the engineer (who was a great guy and really humored us) if there was anything he could add to the kick so that they were all a little more even...

he told me a compressor...

here i am now
 
and to answer your question..the way you wanted...

i use reverb on drums (generally the same reverb on the snare and toms) to give them a bit more of a "big" sound...

i use them to sweeten vocals

i'll occasionally use them as an effect on a clean guitar if it suits my purpose

and like i said...a little goes a long way...

a dry vocal line might sound like it's just plopped on the mix, and a tiny bit of reverb can really make it find it's place
 
Reverb is often used to create a natural "ambience"to the recorded material. People are used to hearing a certain amount of reverb in their everyday surroundings, live performances alway contain a degree of reverb from the hall... this can be a pleasing and very often expected sound during a performance.

Natural reverb is a product of reflections... Vocal booths and live rooms are designed to minimize reflections and their inherent problems in a studio environment. Reverb can be applied to the source audio in a controlled manner with none of the phase cancellation, standing wave, and resonant frequency problems of audio reflections in the recording space.

Reverb can also be used to push different performance tracks back in the sound field or pull them upfront, giving the final mix more depth...
 
And could anyone suggest or just name good reverbs and bad ones. I'm trying to pick up a reverb for my guitar and voice. My tube reverb is actually good, but it works fine only when I turn up my amp's loudness. So I need an addicional one. Maybe not as good, but still possible to work on quiet levels. The Yamaha Rev 5 is very expensive for me, so maybe there are cheaper good reverbs. I'm stuck and confused.
 
i made a post exactly like this a few months (or weeks?) or something ago. i dont feel like searching, or else id go and find it.


but yeah, i agree with you, i hate reverb. it always clutters up my mix and i can never , ever find any use for it.

the only time i happily use LOTS of reverb is if im putting together like a 4 part violin section in a song using cheesy keyboard sounds, then ill put tons of reverb on it and it sounds great and more "real"

but i absolutely haaate reverb on vocals. i like putting a slight delay on my own vocals on some songs though. ill make it so the right speaker is slightly more delayed than the left speaker and it sounds pretty good with my voice.
 
You really can't afford "good" reverbs, I mean no disrespect but do you mean usable?
 
Just wondering, how do you know what he can afford? And what makes you think you have to spend a lot to get a good (not just "usable) reverb unit? Hype?
 
EDAN said:
Just wondering, how do you know what he can afford? And what makes you think you have to spend a lot to get a good (not just "usable) reverb unit? Hype?
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Nah, not hype, he's psychic.
 
Okay, get a Rumour! Great verb and effects and decent converters too.
 
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