Reverb makes track louder?

4

4tracker

Guest
Hey guys. I added an FX track and routed drums to it. Somehow it got +3db louder (I didn't touch anything else).

It's 6 drum tracks --> routed to 1 group track --> routed to 1 fx track with reverb.

Any idea why this would happen? I didn't add gain on the reverb or anything like that. Simply muting and unmutnig the FX track shows a +3db gain.
 
You're adding content to the mix. It makes sense that the mix will be louder.

I mean, if you had a mix, and then added in a guitar track, it's possible you could see a +3 dB rise and you wouldn't question it. What's confusing you about the reverb making it louder?
 
Assuming the effects track is set up in the usual parallel way: make sure to set the reverb's wet/dry mix control to 100% "wet" with none of the original "dry" signal coming through. Reverb alone can add some level but 3dB seems like more than just the effect.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Assuming the effects track is set up in the usual parallel way: make sure to set the reverb's wet/dry mix control to 100% "wet" with none of the original "dry" signal coming through. Reverb alone can add some level but 3dB seems like more than just the effect.
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Yeah that's probably it I had it set at 25% wet. The thing is, at 100% it sounds very odd. That's why I set it lower. I must be doing something wrong here. I've read and seen on youtube saying 100% for the reverb, but to me it sounds very faded and washed out when I do that.

But say I like how it sounds at 25% wet. Would I lower the FX or Group track (the 6 drum tracks) -3db in order to reduce the gain?
 
As has been said, the wet/dry balance can easily affect the overall level...you're mixing together to versions of the same thing and can easily end up with a few extra dB.

The thing is...don't worry about it. Unless you're mixing way too hot to start with an extra 3dB isn't a problem. Make sure the reverb sound right and the balance of all your sounds is right...then sort out the overall level later on. Getting bogged down on numbers (again, so long as you're not mixing too hot) can divert you from the important stuff.
 
4tracker said:
Yeah that's probably it I had it set at 25% wet. The thing is, at 100% it sounds very odd. That's why I set it lower. I must be doing something wrong here. I've read and seen on youtube saying 100% for the reverb, but to me it sounds very faded and washed out when I do that.

But say I like how it sounds at 25% wet. Would I lower the FX or Group track (the 6 drum tracks) -3db in order to reduce the gain?
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You're doing it the wrong way.
When you set up an FX buss, you want its output to be 100% wet. The 'dry' sound is already going to your master mix from the original tracks. You want to adjust the amount of 'send' volume being sent from each track to the reverb - so don't send them all to a group first, send each one separately to the reverb. You might want more reverb on the snare, but less on the kick, for example.
 
mjbphotos said:
You're doing it the wrong way.
When you set up an FX buss, you want its output to be 100% wet. The 'dry' sound is already going to your master mix from the original tracks. You want to adjust the amount of 'send' volume being sent from each track to the reverb - so don't send them all to a group first, send each one separately to the reverb. You might want more reverb on the snare, but less on the kick, for example.
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hmm. I also use the dry/wet control to about 15-25% wet every time. For example, my Vox bus will have Medium Studio Reverb as an insert, not to send, because the guitars use a slightly different verb with much less pre-delay so there is nothing else to "send" to it. The Guitar bus has its own reverb insert. Again, that's why I use it as an insert on the vocal bus. From there, I leave the "mix%" at about 50%, the "wet/dry" at about 20%, and it's all good. Is this really the "wrong way"? I'm curious to know if I could be setting this up more efficiently, even if just to save some RAM. But again, I don't send anything else to the specific reverb the vocals use. thanks MJB
 
andrushkiwt said:
hmm. I also use the dry/wet control to about 15-25% wet every time. For example, my Vox bus will have Medium Studio Reverb as an insert, not to send, because the guitars use a slightly different verb with much less pre-delay so there is nothing else to "send" to it. The Guitar bus has its own reverb insert. Again, that's why I use it as an insert on the vocal bus. From there, I leave the "mix%" at about 50%, the "wet/dry" at about 20%, and it's all good. Is this really the "wrong way"? I'm curious to know if I could be setting this up more efficiently, even if just to save some RAM. But again, I don't send anything else to the specific reverb the vocals use. thanks MJB
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It's not "wrong" if it works for you. But, generally, like everyone here is saying, reverb should be a SEND and it should be at 100% wet. If there's too much reverb at 100% wet, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you simply have to send less to it.

If you're using your reveb as an insert, the one thing that you have to check is whether the reverb will now be mono. I'm pretty sure you're losing the stereo(ness) of your reverb if you insert it.
 
RAMI said:
.If you're using your reveb as an insert, the one thing that you have to check is whether the reverb will now be mono. I'm pretty sure you're losing the stereo(ness) of your reverb if you insert it.
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crap. i'll check that when I get home. any way to "verify" that other than dragging into the "send" column and comparing by ear?
 
andrushkiwt said:
crap. i'll check that when I get home. any way to "verify" that other than dragging into the "send" column and comparing by ear?
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If there's a way to solo the reberb (if there's isn't , then that's another reason you shouldn't be inserting it), you should be able to tell.

To be honest, I don't see how it wouldn't be mono. Regardless of the fact that the reverb is stereo, you're inserting into a mono track. It pretty much has to become mono.
 
RAMI said:
Stupid me. Of course there's a way to solo the reverb when it's an insert. Just put it to 100% wet.
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not at home to test now, but I am certain that it turns it into a cathedral. way too much reverb if i put it to 100%. but i do want to test the stereo/mono theory. i'll try it tonight at post later.
 
andrushkiwt said:
not at home to test now, but I am certain that it turns it into a cathedral. way too much reverb if i put it to 100.
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Of course. I just meant put it to 100% wet to solo it and see if it's centred (mono) or not.
 
What DAW is this? I've been using Reaper so long that I almost forgot that some folks have to actually tell their tracks if they are mono or stereo. That might fuck you up a bit.

There's nothing really wrong with series reverb the way you're doing it. In that case you of course have to use the plugin's mix/volume controls (and/or the mix control that Reaper adds to everything), but when you're doing the more common parallel thing, it has to be 100% wet. You adjust the relative level of various instruments through the verb (more on snare, less on kick...) using their individual send levels, and the mix of those instruments to their reverb (how wet everything is in general) with the verb's track fader. Which is to say that the wet/dry/mix/whatever knob on your reverb is pretty much redundant in the parallel situation.

One thing that parallel processing makes a little easier in most DAWs (and hardware) is to put other effects - EQ, compression or expansion, a little delay or even subtle vibrato/chorus - on the sound being fed to the reverb without affecting the instruments themselves. In Reaper, it's pretty easy to do that on one track, but it ends up still being parallel processing.

Frankly, it's sometimes just nice to have that fader right on the mixer to adjust the wetness without having to open the effect GUI and twiddle its fiddly little knob.
 
ashcat_lt said:
What DAW is this? I've been using Reaper so long that I almost forgot that some folks have to actually tell their tracks if they are mono or stereo. That might fuck you up a bit.
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Even if he's using REAPER. If he's inserting a stereo reveb on a vocal (or guitar or whatever) track, which is a mono source, that reverb will collapse to mono. I'm almost 100% wet...I mean 100% sure.
 
If you know that it's raising your level 3db but it sounds right, just lower the track 3db again...
 
I always use reverbs as a send effect, put it at 100% wet, and use the track send level to control the reverb amount.

I've just gotten used to the fact that sending to a reverb in Reaper increases the sending track's volume. Once I back off on the send level, it makes very little difference, but I still need to knock a dB or two off of the sending track volume.
 
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