Restructuring vocal setup, help

[Dockcurrie]

Hey, I'm running up against a wall here with gear that I really don't understand and so I was hoping to get some help here.

I am a strong vocalist, bit on the understated side, I like to think of my voice as very close to alot of Guided by Voices. So I don't need anything to correct tonality or make up for massive swings between quiet or loud or anything.

All I'm looking for is an affordable rig that will make my voice clear, effected (reverb), and loud without feedback.

Right now I pick for mics between a Shure knockoff by Daiwa and a 58, I usually go with the Diawa - it just sounds warmer.

That gets run straigt into a peavey XR powered mixer (600 or 800, I forget), which up until recently I have loved to no end.

For quieter stuff the XR and Daiwa are deadly and make my voice sound great. But add bass, drums, and kick the guitar up to keep up and suddenly the vocals aren't nearly loud enough (and I'm belting it out by this point).

When I turn the peavey up it feedbacks like nothing else. I've tried playing with the EQ to no end to no avail, by the time the EQ is at a point at which the overall sound is loud enough the vocals sound terrible because I've had to cut out my favorite frequencies.

So what I'm asking for is if anyone knows what I should be putting in the peavey's effects loop, or what I should be trading the peavey in for if I want loud (really loud), clear, reverby vocals without feedback.

Cheers.

 

[Big Kenny]

You are speaking of a live application and there are too many variables to address. Speaker location, monitor structure, room design, eq, speaker design, instrument placement, etc etc etc

 

[Dockcurrie]

Dude, what part of "help" don't you understand.

Yeah, it's "live" if you want to call it that, but lets say to help you out that I'm in a room twenty feet by twenty feet, square, with drywall and thick carpet, because I am. the Peavey is running through a peavey sheffeild 1x15 cabinet.

I'm not asking for the be all and end all answer for my specific situation, I'm asking about what gear most often acheives a loud, rich, clear, reverbed vocal sound without feedbacking.

If I use a feedback filter can I up the overall volume? can I up it alot?

that kind of thing

 

[orksnork]

a gate might work

be nice.

 

[Dockcurrie]

I know, its hard to be nice in a stilted medium like the internet.

Thanks for responding, both of you.

What kind of gate? a review of the Sabine FBX on harmony central said it boosted usable db by 3 to 9. Which, of course, would be great. But it was only one guy, only one review.

 

[orksnork]

I know, its hard to be nice in a stilted medium like the internet.

Thanks for responding, both of you.

What kind of gate? a review of the Sabine FBX on harmony central said it boosted usable db by 3 to 9. Which, of course, would be great. But it was only one guy, only one review.

well pretty much any functional gate would do...no need to go nuts for practicing in a room in a house...

a gate acts like...a gate....

anything input under a certain level...the gate activates and kills it...

so when you are singing it's open...then when you stop...it cuts off the input from the mic...and feedback shouldn't be able to happen

 

[Daniel Reichman]

anything input under a certain level...the gate activates and kills it...

so when you are singing it's open...then when you stop...it cuts off the input from the mic...and feedback shouldn't be able to happen

Except that the gate won't kill feedback while you're singing. What you need to do is reposition your mic, plain and simple.

You could look at a fully parametric eq to pinpoint the exact frequency that is feeding back - which is, dare I say, probably going to be more specific and accurate than your Peavy desk, leaving most of your 'favourite' frequencies intact.

But, before you buy anything, move the mic away from the speaker.

 

[orksnork]

i dont know if this is true, but it's something i have found true to myself in the past...if i'm wrong...someone let me know so he can disregard it...

when i was younger, band practices and basements and what not...it seemed like we would get some feedback when we had to crank the power amp up on our PA...

then after we got a much more powerful one, and we didnt have to crank it...we got a much louder vocal output and no feedback at all...seems like this works for guitar amps too....if you crank a little 30 watt you'll get feedback at a lower volume than a 100 watt amp...

maybe you just dont have enough power...wattage seemingly being ENTIRELY subjective from manufacturer to manufacturer when it comes to PA equipment...

 

[hungovermorning]

Guyatone makes a tube reverb unit that may very much be up your alley, inherently it doubles as a tube pre amp and it's a Guyatone so at worst it's pretty okay. I just bought a hand built one from Lancaster Amps or else I would've jumped on it.

cheers,
scott

 

[littledog]

Just so you understand, you posted a live sound problem in a recording forum. You might get better answers in a live sound forum.

Be that as it may, most problems can be solved by throwing money at them, but you didn't say how much money you want to spend.

For instance, you could pick up one of those Bose PAS systems at guitar center, which would give you a lot more power and are designed to be much more feedback resistant than a typical PA. But that is a $2000 solution to your problem.

Part of the issue here is that we don't really know what you are trying to do. Is this a small performance space with an audience, or are you just trying to rehearse a band. If it is just rehearsal, the answer might be fairly simple - use headphones.

 

[riffy]

To get more gain before feedback, have you tried a super-cardiod mic? The 58 is just a cardiod.

 

[bair_ohio]

I do a lot of live sound and first off I would say to get the volume you desire regardless of mic, pushing a single 15 for vocals just wont cut it. Especially if your band is loud. I would at least pair up the speakers. Maybe Im stating the obvious here but you also dont want the speaker aimed back at your mic.

I also read here that using a higher watt amp will help. I cant explain why but I have found this to be true also.

I would stick with a 58...Cheap mics require a lot more gain which will make them feedback quicker.

As for the reverb? good luck..Ive always had problems with reverb and live sound in smaller areas.


Headphones? Why not, you will at least here a quality vocal. Hell, I played with a band that ran both vocals and bass through headphones to cut down on overall volume in their practice pad.